Guns International

ATF jacked me up!!!!

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  • JKTex

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    Mar 11, 2008
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    DFW, North Texas
    I had a a full detailed message all ready to submit but the page went blank as soon a I was just about finished

    read the message above yours tx and see my response...


    That's bizarre. Your message wasn't there when I replied, yet it's got an earlier time stamp than mine.

    It's staring to happen already...... they're coming to take us away, haha, they're coming to take us away hehe.....
    Guns International
     

    SC-Texas

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    Feb 7, 2009
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    CZ Guy,

    I'm sorry but you can fault them. The NAZI gate guards where just doing what they were told. That didn't make it right or moral.

    The fact that ATF is pulling this shit is wrong. They had no real probable cause for a stop and you know it.

    Nice thing is that this can happen to you one day. some felon points you out when your out of uniform and your front door gets kicked in on a no knock.

    Would you feel the same way as you do here or would you feel violated?
     

    CZ guy

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    May 13, 2008
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    Left of Galveston Bay
    SC-Texas, after being a cop for almost 3 decades, I am here to tell you that when the dispatcher tells you to assist another agency on a possible felon with a handgun, you go. You do the deed by the book and you GO without question.

    When the investigation terminates, you let the originating agency mop up the tears and repair the hurt feelings. You did YOUR part of it and everybody gets to go home without a scratch.

    From what we read here, Austin PD did nothing wrong. The ATF might have; I don't know how flimsy their information was that started the whole mess.
     

    SC-Texas

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    I'm not saying you are wrong, but there is a problem when the ATF can detain someone on this flimsy of a pretense. This should not amount to enough PC to initiate a stop.

    Just my opinion and maybe someday the Court of criminal Appeals will agree with me.
     

    Morgan

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    Dec 2, 2008
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    Just playing devil's advocate for a second... If an agency is using an informant, what exactly are they SUPPOSED to do when the informant tells them, "I believe that guy is this guy, who shouldn't be in possession of that gun."? I'm not crazy about the ATF by any means, but... I'm confused at what they're supposed to do exactly if having you pulled over and verify that you are not the felon in question isn't it.
     

    Texas1911

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    I think APD did their part, but I think it's safe to say the ATF went on a whim. They are the ATF and get away with this crap. It's rediculous.

    If you want, I can put you in contact with a local ATF field agent if you'd like to file a complaint.
     

    txtrooper

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    Jan 26, 2009
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    After reading three pages of posts, I am somewhat confused about how most of you have formulated your opinions about this situation. I do not believe that JGON281 has provided a complete detailed account of what transpired. I would certainly want to talk with everyone involved before making a decision based on JGON281’S information. I have learned not to pass judgment based on limited information, without any further investigation. How can others on this site rush judgment based on the limited information provided. It appears to me that JGON281’s situation is unfolding on this website as others do the very same thing that they are complaining about. You have taken information from an unknown source and rushed judgment. Perhaps JGON281 was not provided all information known by officers/agents. I for one would not tell a suspect that there was a Cooperating Individual (CI), unless there was a criminal case filed with the District Attorney. Furthermore, it is standard procedure for CI information to be corroborated prior to taking any enforcement action.

    JGON281, I would seek out the answers to my questions from the officers involved. The first question that I would ask is, did the officers have reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop me? If not, did the officers have probable cause to stop me? Many times officers will observe a traffic violation (Independent Probable Cause) to stop someone and then the officers will conduct an interview with the person in order to develop reasonable suspicion that there is other criminal activity. Once you find these answers, you will be closer to knowing if the officers were justified in their actions. I certainly understand that you felt like your rights were violated, although it may have been legal and justified.
     
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    Oct 8, 2008
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    I had a a full detailed message all ready to submit but the page went blank as soon a I was just about finished .. so here is my shortend version because I don't want it to just go blank again in the process. The officer said (((((I was stopped because the ATF asked them to do so))))) . I gave them permission to get my I.D. out of my pocket. They ran my name. Keep in mind the ATF did not even know me from any other stranger... no name or any other info . Nothing. The APD said after running my I.D. that there is a guy or several guys out there with the same name that are felons . One guy even has the same birthday as me. They did not question me as far as I can remember ,they just ran my I.D. We were in his vehicle and were stopped . How did ATF get my name initially you might ask ? They did not have any info. on me at all untill they got the info. from my drivers licence. please ask if you have any further question TXinvestigator

    I dont mean to bust your balls but if that was the reason I would be stop by ATF, CIA, FBI, you name it! I have ran background checks on my self and I have found many people with the same bday and name that are convicts and killers. I was scare my self when I saw that on the background check... But this background checks are the ones you run from the internet and those checks pulls your information and small pockets of info from people that has the same name and bday as you... I really doubt that this is the same method that LE is using... I go to gun shows, buy guns, and have chl without a problem... Something is not right.
     

    Grog

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    Dec 10, 2008
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    Scary times. I have a feeling stories like this are going to become more rampant. Next we will have a "Civilian National Security Force" to deal with.

    Exactly.. And they will say it is reasonable because someone has a similar name.... or reasonable because of where you are..... Or how you look.

    Most searches are not reasonable.

    I am not a fan of the police state. I can take care of myself and neither want nor need their 'help'.
     

    txtrooper

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    Jan 26, 2009
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    Most searches are unreasonable!

    Exactly.. And they will say it is reasonable because someone has a similar name.... or reasonable because of where you are..... Or how you look.

    Most searches are not reasonable.

    I am not a fan of the police state. I can take care of myself and neither want nor need their 'help'.

    "Most searches are not reasonable." You have got to be kidding here. Get a grip Grog. As for looks being a reason to search, I have never seen or heard of an officer searching someone based on how they look.
     

    Grog

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    "Most searches are not reasonable." You have got to be kidding here. Get a grip Grog. As for looks being a reason to search, I have never seen or heard of an officer searching someone based on how they look.
    I stand by my quote.

    Most searches are unreasonable.

    The proper response is "You do not have permission to search." "You need a warrant to search."

    If everyone did this EVERY time the USA would be a better place!

    I gain nothing from being searched and have everything to lose.

    I cannot gain freedom because I already have that. I can only lose it.

    A search is a fishing expedition. And a way to throw someone in the pokey. The person searched never ends up ahead from it. It ain't a lotto! lol
     

    cowboy45

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    May 1, 2008
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    Maybe I am missing something. I have read all this a couple of times, and I keep wondering why the informant would randomly pick this guy out of the blue to ID. I am not pointing fingers, but nobody has asked this question. This is a guy who went into a show and legally purchased ammo and left and then was put through this scenario.

    Maybe he also bought several pounds of beef jerky. ??????
     

    bvillars

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    Feb 22, 2009
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    atf

    anyone who thinks that the atf is not monitoring all gun shows must be dreaming of better days. since the massacre at waco( atf massacred innocent children) they have been more proactive. nothing wrong with that, but their gestapo tactics have to be curtailed. always request proper i.d. of all officers on scene, you have the right to have this in writing. if not given ask for a supervisor.
     

    CZ guy

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    May 13, 2008
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    I stand by my quote.

    Most searches are unreasonable.

    The proper response is "You do not have permission to search." "You need a warrant to search."

    If everyone did this EVERY time the USA would be a better place!

    I gain nothing from being searched and have everything to lose.

    I cannot gain freedom because I already have that. I can only lose it.

    A search is a fishing expedition. And a way to throw someone in the pokey. The person searched never ends up ahead from it. It ain't a lotto! lol

    Search ME. I don't care, I have nothing to hide. You will NOT find me in possession of illegal contraband. I personally support 'criminal profiling' by law enforcement. If you have jailhouse tattoos and call everyone 'boss', you need searched once in a while. ;)
     

    robocop10mm

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    Jan 9, 2009
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    Round Rock
    Search ME. I don't care, I have nothing to hide. You will NOT find me in possession of illegal contraband. I personally support 'criminal profiling' by law enforcement. If you have jailhouse tattoos and call everyone 'boss', you need searched once in a while. ;)

    I have nothing to hide, but I am not iniclined to give consent to search, period. Asking for consent is a pretty good indication the officer has not established PC to search. Generally this IS a fishing expedition by an over zelous officer looking to make a name for himself.

    If I need to search your car, I can establish PC and search w/o your consent or lump it. I will not make $hit up trying to justify getting into your car. The PC is either there or it isn't.

    Respectfully say no.

    As far as this gunshow ATF thing. APD is blameless (for once). Go to ATF and ask for a better accounting of why you were detained for an hour. If they are not able to give a satisfactory answer, THEN file a complaint and contact an attorney.

    The fact is, you will not get very far in a Law Suit. The court will not award much, if anything, for an hours detention. You must be able to show harm, intent or negligence. An hour of your time is not very harmful. It is a PITA and is likely wrong, just not harm.
     

    Texas42

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    Just cause you have nothing to hide, doesn't mean you should let the police into your house or let them search your car. It is your right. The police SHOULDN'T go after you because of you utilizing your rights.
     

    40Arpent

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    Jul 16, 2008
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    I have read all this a couple of times, and I keep wondering why the informant would randomly pick this guy out of the blue to ID. I am not pointing fingers, but nobody has asked this question.

    I didn't ask that question because I assumed that when the OP said "ATF said their ex-con snitch told them I was in the federal pen before and they jacked me up on this basis," he meant that the snitch just happened to see him and thought he looked like someone he knew from the pen.
     

    cowboy45

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    May 1, 2008
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    So you are saying that they took their ex-con snitch to the austin gun show so he could walk around and see if he recognized anyone that he might know from prison. I am a little confused. I understand fishing but I would at least use bait.
     

    Strick

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    Jan 20, 2009
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    Katy, TX
    I am not sure why there is such an uproar. I can understand being upset at the time and scared by not knowing what was going on but you were cleared and you were sent on your way.

    Maybe they tracked your behavior during the show and got your info from a vendor? Maybe you do look like a guy someone did time with. Isn't this what we always say the government needs to do, enforce the current laws instead of passing new ones that just outright ban firearms.

    Based on just the partial and somewhat hard to follow recount of the deal they had cause to check you out. They did their job, it does suck but so does felons or gun runners buying firearms at gun shows and giving us law abiding people a bad name.
     
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