ATF jacked me up!!!!

[drj3828]

Back in the 80's I bought three pistols at a gunshow in Lufkin on Saturday and went back on Sunday and bought two rifles. They where all new guns and did the proper paper work when I purchased them. On the following monday the ATF gave me a visit at my work with a few questions, then they left and I never seen them again.

 

[jgon281]

Just in case you were wondering ... I am a clean cut looking guy , no tattoos, no scars , I have all my teeth and I speek proper english and I am polite 98% of the time. I was not doing anything that would make me stand out . This to me was just ATF taking a shot in the dark IMHO... I have nothing to hide either but till it happens to you then you will know where in the hell I am coming from! I won't persue this because I know that this won't get me anywhere or change a thing. The APD did there part and I cannot blaim them one bit ... nor do I have anything against APD. This won't stop me from being me and I am still going to gun shows and get more ammo if the price is right. See ya at the Pasadena gun show this weekend.

 

[jgon281]

STRICK I sure in the hell hope it happens to you bud ... but I hope they DON"T make a mistake and put a bullet in your skull (on accident)

 

[Old Man of the Mountain]

According to our 2nd Amendment, the BATF is nothing more than an organized criminal conspiracy.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be Infringed!

That is not even limited to firearms, as all Arms are covered under that simple blanket statement.

How can you possibly have an entire bureaucracy dedicated to infringing the right to keep and bear arms, when such action is clearly illegal?

 

[Old Man of the Mountain]

I am not sure why there is such an uproar. I can understand being upset at the time and scared by not knowing what was going on but you were cleared and you were sent on your way.

Maybe they tracked your behavior during the show and got your info from a vendor? Maybe you do look like a guy someone did time with. Isn't this what we always say the government needs to do, enforce the current laws instead of passing new ones that just outright ban firearms.

Based on just the partial and somewhat hard to follow recount of the deal they had cause to check you out. They did their job, it does suck but so does felons or gun runners buying firearms at gun shows and giving us law abiding people a bad name.

What was any of the actions of the Agents of the Washington Government even about at all?

There is no such thing as a Felon, that is just a Washington Government invention to disarm American Citizens.

It is possible for someone to be accused of committing a so called Felony.

It is possible to be on trial for such an accusation.

It is possible to be convicted and sentenced.

Once that sentence has been served, or has expired, then that person is a Citizen, not a "Felon".

If any individual is so dangerous that they can not be considered to be a Citizen, then they should never be put into the general population of Citizens, for the protection of those Citizens.

If the individual is no longer a threat to Citizens, then that individual is a Citizen again, not a "Felon".

The Washington Government will use every little ploy to disarm Citizens, it is only going to get worse until we put a stop to them!

 

[txtrooper]

You should learn your rights, before you quote them.

I stand by my quote.

Most searches are unreasonable.

The proper response is "You do not have permission to search." "You need a warrant to search."

If everyone did this EVERY time the USA would be a better place!

I gain nothing from being searched and have everything to lose.

I cannot gain freedom because I already have that. I can only lose it.

A search is a fishing expedition. And a way to throw someone in the pokey. The person searched never ends up ahead from it. It ain't a lotto! lol

A warrant is not needed to search a vehicle, if probable cause exists. You should really pick up a copy of the Code of Criminal Proceedure and learn the law before you make false and misleading statements.

 

[glockrocker]

In my experience, if a cop wants to search your car, hes gonna search your car. I always deny consent, then usually what happens is a k9 unit is called, they let the dog sniff the car up and down and when the dog doesnt do anything because I do not use drugs, they will either kick the back bumper and say the dog signal'd or just treat you like youre stupid and tell you the dog signal'd even when he did nothing but sniff around. I've had both of these 'tactics' done to me (in Arkansas, they are real search happy there). And of course they never found anything then try to get me to say I was around somebody that was smoking pot in the past week and maybe thats why the dog "signal'd". But if they did find anything illegal, Im confident I could get it thrown out of court because the search was not consented or waranted but who knows.

 

[DCortez]

Most searches are unreasonable.

The proper response is "You do not have permission to search."

If everyone did this EVERY time the USA would be a better place!

/agree

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the facination with bullying people.

If you catch me speeding, not using my blinker, or whatever, just give me a ticket for what I did wrong. Spare me the search and sermon.

 

[Grog]

Search ME. I don't care, I have nothing to hide. You will NOT find me in possession of illegal contraband. I personally support 'criminal profiling' by law enforcement. If you have jailhouse tattoos and call everyone 'boss', you need searched once in a while.

Keep thinking that... And end up in jail... Many, honest, well meaning citizens have been down that path. Innocent things you say, or have, may be misconstrued.

What you say cannot help you. It can only hurt you. Same with a search.

Here are two videos you may want to watch.

Video 1

and

Video 2

Decide for yourself. You can take your freedom into your own hands if you like. I tend to be a little more careful, and less trusting of the either the government or private individuals.

Each to his/her own.

Grog

 

[Texas42]

TxTrooper, the constitution says you got to have a warrant. A judge says that probable cause is like a warrant. Only the problem is that a police officer can make up some BS and call it probable cause, especially with cars. They know how to word the report.

I had a sheriff tailgate me for miles outside of bracketville. He eventually pulled me over for, you know, being nervous with a big police car tailgating you for six straight miles. I know he just wanted to look me over. It doesn't make it right.

I'm not saying I don't respect police. I'm just saying that they overstep their rights from time to time. And it isn't right to punish a citizen of the USA for utilizing their rights.

 

[CZ guy]

Wow, I was not aware that TGT was so filled with anti-government/anti-law enforcement types. After reading most of these posts, I think I'll play in a more friendly environment.

 

[DCortez]

CZ, I may one of the people you consider to be an anti. I do not like people have power or authority over me. I really dislike the abuse that power.

For example, if I get pulled over, I do not think it is appropriate for a LEO to ask me if I knew how fast I was going, do I know why he pulled me over, or where am I headed to. It is none of his/her business and has nothing to do with me providing a valid driver's license and proof of insurance.

Now, if that cop is giving me the choice to recieve a sermon or to recieve a ticket, he should say so up front. I believe it is un-American to question me and shows total disrespect for the constitution. Fishing for law breaking is unacceptable to me.

The other side of that argument could be, well, when you are in trouble, you will call the cops or wish we were there. That might apply if I lived my life thinking the government is the answer. I do not live my life thinking it will be tragedy free or filled with flowers and sunshine. Afterall, we are talking life.

I don't mean to insult, berate, or degrade others. At this point in my life, I think it's time to air my honest opinions.

 

[txinvestigator]

According to our 2nd Amendment, the BATF is nothing more than an organized criminal conspiracy.

The BATFE does not write the laws, but I'd be fascinated to see the term "organized criminal conspiracy" in the constitution.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be Infringed!

That is not even limited to firearms, as all Arms are covered under that simple blanket statement.

How can you possibly have an entire bureaucracy dedicated to infringing the right to keep and bear arms, when such action is clearly illegal?

The supreme court would seem to disagree with you. It is their opinion that certain restrictions and regulation are not "illegal", and I agree. I don't agree with all of the current laws and regulation.

I guess it is not so clear.

 

[txinvestigator]

In my experience, if a cop wants to search your car, hes gonna search your car. I always deny consent, then usually what happens is a k9 unit is called, they let the dog sniff the car up and down and when the dog doesnt do anything because I do not use drugs, they will either kick the back bumper and say the dog signal'd or just treat you like youre stupid and tell you the dog signal'd even when he did nothing but sniff around. I've had both of these 'tactics' done to me (in Arkansas, they are real search happy there). And of course they never found anything then try to get me to say I was around somebody that was smoking pot in the past week and maybe thats why the dog "signal'd". But if they did find anything illegal, Im confident I could get it thrown out of court because the search was not consented or waranted but who knows.

You might consider why that happened to you twice. You say it has happened to you twice, then you state that they "usually" call a K9.

Seems incongruent to me.

 

[txinvestigator]

TxTrooper, the constitution says you got to have a warrant. A judge says that probable cause is like a warrant. Only the problem is that a police officer can make up some BS and call it probable cause, especially with cars. They know how to word the report.

No, the Constitution does not say that. It reads, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The supreme court has held that it is not ureasonable to search a vehicle for several reasons without a warrant. One of those reasons is with Probable Cause. And what do you mean, "a judge" says PC is like a warrant? First, that is just a nonsensical statement. Second, the Supreme Court ruled on warrantless searches, and while the are Justices, no one judge decided that.

It is up to the courts to determine the reasonableness of the search, as it should be.

 

[txinvestigator]

CZ, I may one of the people you consider to be an anti. I do not like people have power or authority over me. I really dislike the abuse that power.

For example, if I get pulled over, I do not think it is appropriate for a LEO to ask me if I knew how fast I was going, do I know why he pulled me over, or where am I headed to. It is none of his/her business and has nothing to do with me providing a valid driver's license and proof of insurance.

All of those questions are appropriate. You do not have to answer. I think it is silly for LEO to ask you for evidence against yourself ("do you know how fast you were going"), but it is not inappropriate.

Now, if that cop is giving me the choice to recieve a sermon or to recieve a ticket, he should say so up front. I believe it is un-American to question me and shows total disrespect for the constitution. Fishing for law breaking is unacceptable to me.

It is not a violation or "disrespect" of the constitution to ask you questions. You are free to not answer.

Your belief that "fishing" is unacceptable is irrelevant, really. I do not see how "fishing" whatever that is, is unconstitutional.

 

[whit128]

The gentleman in this video had issues with authority figures as well so he killed a father and husband. I grew out of mine at 15 but hey to each his own.
LiveLeak.com - DASH CAM: Shootout between man and Texas game wardens

 

[onac255]

The gentleman in this video had issues with authority figures as well so he killed a father and husband. I grew out of mine at 15 but hey to each his own.
LiveLeak.com - DASH CAM: Shootout between man and Texas game wardens

Holy crap was that an AK he pulled out at the end?

 

[robocop10mm]

CZ, I may one of the people you consider to be an anti. I do not like people have power or authority over me. I really dislike the abuse that power.

For example, if I get pulled over, I do not think it is appropriate for a LEO to ask me if I knew how fast I was going, do I know why he pulled me over, or where am I headed to. It is none of his/her business and has nothing to do with me providing a valid driver's license and proof of insurance.

Now, if that cop is giving me the choice to recieve a sermon or to recieve a ticket, he should say so up front. I believe it is un-American to question me and shows total disrespect for the constitution. Fishing for law breaking is unacceptable to me.

The other side of that argument could be, well, when you are in trouble, you will call the cops or wish we were there. That might apply if I lived my life thinking the government is the answer. I do not live my life thinking it will be tragedy free or filled with flowers and sunshine. Afterall, we are talking life.

I don't mean to insult, berate, or degrade others. At this point in my life, I think it's time to air my honest opinions.

It is not "appropriate' to ask you if you know how fast you were going, why you were stopped or where you are going?

The first two are a part of the well accepted 7 step approach to a traffic stop. This is there for several reasons including initiating a conversation to see what kind of mental state you are in. If you never say anything after being stopped how would an officer know if you were capable of driving? The third part is also to ascertain if you are able to continue driving. If you were east bound on US 290, east of Austin and said you were going to Fredricksburg, that would raise some red flags (yes, I got that answer once). Is this person intoxicated, lost or in some sort of distress?

It is hardly a sermon when the officer is asking you a few questions. If he wants to explain why you should not be going "X" MPH, that is a sermon. Wake up Nimrod, the Constitution does not guarantee you the right to be free from questions. The Constitution guarantees you the right to remain silent. You are under no obligation to answer the questions, so don't (and see how far that gets you). Fishing for law breaking? You really need to stop taking whatever paranoia inducing substances you are exposing your self to.

My advise to you is to attend the "Citizens Police Academy" put on by an agency near you. You will find the answers to many if not all your "questions" about authority.

 

[40Arpent]

The other side of that argument could be, well, when you are in trouble, you will call the cops or wish we were there. That might apply if I lived my life thinking the government is the answer. I do not live my life thinking it will be tragedy free or filled with flowers and sunshine. Afterall, we are talking life.

Good luck with catching the criminal who steals your belongings, or torches your house, or abducts your child, or rapes a loved one...on your own.