Atf rule banning private sales requires FFL rumored for fall.

[PinnedandRecessed]

As previously stated, an injunction is hopefully in the works. The brace injunctions took a few months so we will see.

 

[Otto_Mation]

 

[popsgarland]

If mine doesn't sell by Sunday night, I'm just gonna keep it.

 

[popsgarland]

What about this.....my neighbor and I were talking one day and he just happen to mention
that he was going to sell one of his guns but wasn't going to post it anywhere, just word of mouth and someone he knows said they wanted it. Will they still have to go through a FFL
if no one knows about it but these two.

I'm not going to do this, just wondering.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

What about this.....my neighbor and I were talking one day and he just happen to mention
that he was going to sell one of his guns but wasn't going to post it anywhere, just word of mouth and someone he knows said they wanted it. Will they still have to go through a FFL
if no one knows about it but these two.

I'm not going to do this, just wondering.

Going through a separate FFL won't help anything.

 

[Grumps21]

What about this.....my neighbor and I were talking one day and he just happen to mention
that he was going to sell one of his guns but wasn't going to post it anywhere, just word of mouth and someone he knows said they wanted it. Will they still have to go through a FFL
if no one knows about it but these two.

I'm not going to do this, just wondering.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it still make a sound?

 

[Johnny Diamond]

I'm confused. Is this rule going to happen for real or are they trying to get this rule OKed so it will happen? If it's happening for real, when does it start?

In the past 3 years has the ATF even once asked anyone for permission or seriously given credence to anything that we the undesirables wanted?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[toddnjoyce]

Can you donate or give a firearm? I can't remember if someone mentioned that already.

ATF’s position is that if you do any number of things to get rid of a firearm, ATF presumes you are dealing without a license and it’s up to you to prove otherwise at trial.

 

[Catherine1]

Montana Shooting Sports Association wrote to the BATFE and I saw the LINK on a Montana gun selling website.

HIS letter and THEIR REPLY to him is OPEN for the PUBLIC TO READ and online.

I could not get HIS letter to open in it's FILE on my computer but maybe you can AND I could get their REPLY to him back OPEN. But I can't get it to paste and post.

IT IS OPEN for the PUBLIC to read.

Here are the links below if you would like to see it and read it online.

Montana Gun Trader Member News & Activity Feed

Montana Gun Trader Buy, Sell & Trade Locally Online Latest Featured Ads – View On Stream

montanaguntrader.com

Membership - Montana Shooting Sports Association

Dear Montana Gun Owner, The Montana Shooting Sports Association (MSSA) is the primary organization asserting the rights, privileges, and prerogatives of gun owners and shooting sports enthusiasts throughout our state. As your advocate in political and legislative arenas, MSSA promotes and...

www.mtssa.org

New BATFE Rule, "engaged in business" - Montana Shooting Sports Association

What the new BATFE regulation redefining"engaged in business" of selling firearms means and who it may apply to.

www.mtssa.org

~~~

https://progunleaders.org/batfe/From%20BATFE%20042524.pdf

Helena, Montana Supervisor's (BATFE) REPLY to GM - MSSA is in the LAST LINK posted above.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Southpaw]

Unenforceable at first maybe but as time goes on.........

There will be contact numbers for those concerned Citizens that want to report their neighbors and relatives they are pissed at.............

XXY offered to sell me a gun........

XXY sold a gun to my relative........

XXY is dealing out of their car (whether you are or aren't)

My Ex sold a bunch of guns to XXY......

Finally that spreadsheet of local Beto supporters will come in handy.

 

[craigntx]

Sounds like if you want to sell to a dealer at a loss that's not a violation.
The end result is a 4473 will be created so the next step will be realized which is registration then of course confiscation

 

[Bozz10mm]

So, if I decided I wanted to sell most of my guns, how difficult is it to get an FFL for a year?

Well then of course you would have to run background checks, keep records, and subject yourself to announced inspections and their zero tolerance policy.

 

[Catherine1]

Do some of your TEXAS stores do a consignment with a FULL IN STORE CREDIT so that you can buy a NEW TO YOU = NIB or used firearm, some factory ammunition, a knife, etc. and NOT only have ONE CHOICE by taking 10% or 20% for a commission?

When we downsized one OLD store in RONAN (Now closed due to retirement.) gave us the CHOICE of taking a full in store credit for ANY ITEM or getting CASH with the commission taken off of our selling price.

We did NOT need the cash or want the cash. We got NO cash on purpose.

HE changed almost ALL of his firearms around A LOT over the years due to his own physical issues, retirement and AGE and, at the time, so did I since I was still shooting fairly often but I was NO longer a HIGH VOLUME SHOOTER.

Eventually, due to my husband's crazy 24/7 work schedule and retirement later on - he stopped competing too. Plus with some of his hand issues - he did NOT shoot the bigger calibers over time in very SPECIFIC handguns.


The OLD Ronan store:

I got my NIB BUCK VANGUARD - Made in Idaho from up there, a BUNCH of factory ammunition, some of my husband's reloading stock - I do NOT reload and never did reload, he got some Wrangler jeans, SEVERAL GUN BOOKS, some FISHING gear, etc. by using his FULL IN STORE CREDIT.

One good friend who is still a FFL dealer to us, charges a 10% commission off of our selling price IF we decide to sell something. When he and his brother had the store in THIS TOWN for several years, they sold for us ON consignment with the 10% commission price and my husband bought NIB guns from them too. Guns and some special order knives too. My husband sold a reloading set with them, his old bow and arrow set, etc.

The one brother (FFL) is still in business but in another county and he works alone now. Small one man shop. He and his brother are from Texas originally and they were in the military too.

They are good FRIENDS too!

Old Lady Cate

 

[Otto_Mation]

This rule, like the many other power grab rules issued by unelected bureaucrats at three letter agencies is vague, unclear and fuzzy and subject to the ATFs interpretation so that it suits their own wants and needs at any given point in time. It can be interpreted in many ways and I believe that it is by design. If the ATF decides to make an example of someone they can interpret the rule to fit a crime, real or imagined. For this reason alone, this rule should be struck down.

ETA: Just got an email from the GOA. This is what they said about Thursdays hearing.

GOA is suing the ATF to rip this rule to shreds. Our legal team appeared in court this past Thursday to urge a judge to BLOCK this rule from going into effect at the final hour.
As of right now, the judge is weighing a temporary restraining order on this new rule.

 

[Bozz10mm]

Well then of course you would have to run background checks, keep records, and subject yourself to unannounced inspections and their zero tolerance policy.

 

[Otto_Mation]

Currently there are three separate lawsuits, joined by 25 states, filed in three different district courts in opposition of this rule.

One complaint was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas by twenty states: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming. The second complaint was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas by Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, and Utah. The third complaint was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida by Florida. Various individuals and pro-Second Amendment groups joined as plaintiffs in the first two complaints. All of the complaints name the Department of Justice, the ATF, Attorney General Garland, and Director Dettelbach as defendants.

Here is a link to the complete article: https://renzullilaw.com/half-of-the...panded-definition-of-engaged-in-the-business/

 

[toddnjoyce]

…REPLY to GM - MSSA is in the LAST LINK posted above.

Old Lady Cate

That reply is composed of commentary directly from the final rule which, when put in plain language, states:

ATF advises you to FAFO. We will presume you are a dealer, serve the warrant, and give you a day in court to prove otherwise. If you can convince the judge (not a jury) your actions did not constitute dealing without a license, you’ll be let off the hook. And remember, we get to pick the judge.

Yes, we believe in the concept of guilty until proven innocent; ask your dog if you want to come to our attention.

 

[motorcarman]

I believe it is a 'defense-to-prosecution' when you have the FFL03 (AKA C&R license) because under the terms of the license, you have the right/privilege to buy and sell to 'enhance your collection'.

Unless the language of the FFL03 has been changed also?

When the license is SURRENDERED, SUSPENDED OR REVOKED, you may destroy the 'bound-book'.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I believe it is a 'defense-to-prosecution' when you have the FFL03 (AKA C&R license) because under the terms of the license, you have the right/privilege to buy and sell to 'enhance your collection'.

Unless the language of the FFL03 has been changed also?

When the license is SURRENDERED, SUSPENDED OR REVOKED, you may destroy the 'bound-book'.

There is no defense to prosecution; there is a rebuttal process for the ATFs assumption that any sale is predominantly to earn profit.

No changes to the 03 except you’ll have to liquidate your inventory prior to surrendering the FFL, and if it’s suspended or revoked you’re stuck with the collection just like the 01/02s are with inventory.

 

[MountainGirl]

That reply is composed of commentary directly from the final rule which, when put in plain language, states:

ATF advises you to FAFO. We will presume you are a dealer, serve the warrant, and give you a day in court to prove otherwise. If you can convince the judge (not a jury) your actions did not constitute dealing without a license, you’ll be let off the hook. And remember, we get to pick the judge.

Yes, we believe in the concept of guilty until proven innocent; ask your dog if you want to come to our attention.

Your posts are appreciated.

We're in the same position as @benenglish - no heirs. We could easily devise them to others, but they'd then be in the position of unable to sell.

Too bad there's not a TGTGT Texas Gun Talk Gun Trust for us to leave our arsenal to, or gift ownership into now (while retaining possession), as the case may be.

Wild times spawn wild ideas.