Austin man sentenced for lawful ftf sale ???

[Bithabus]

Technically it does. At least indirectly. If a gun I bought but then sold, was used in a crime, they would only have me as the owner, because there is no required papertrail after the original purchase.

Nothing to do with you. If someone asks, say you sold it. The end.

 

[San Antone RR]

For FFLs, and 4433 forms. For private sales ...???

No 4473, but at the same time, according to the related sequence of events in this thread, he knew it was going to someone prohibited and still did the sale because he thought his balls were bigger than the ATF. He should have known because the gun show was prohibiting the sale in the first place that he was on someone's radar. Guy was a retard and deserved to be busted.
It is asshats like this that give the antis ammo to bitch about TX FTF laws. While I wish ill on few, Mr. Copeland is one that I do.

 

[matefrio]

No 4473, but at the same time, according to the related sequence of events in this thread, he knew it was going to someone prohibited and still did the sale because he thought his balls were bigger than the ATF. He should have known because the gun show was prohibiting the sale in the first place that he was on someone's radar. Guy was a retard and deserved to be busted.
It is asshats like this that give the antis ammo to bitch about TX FTF laws. While I wish ill on few, Mr. Copeland is one that I do.

It really matters how he was busted though as being an ass isn't illegal. I'm afraid of precedent in this case.

 

[BrettNAustin]

Damn good thing to know. I was thinking about selling my gun at a gun show and now I know a lot more about what to be careful of. Thanks!

 

[London]

Boston's Gun Bible has a chapter which tells readers how to CYA when selling at a gun show. (It's a good book and you'll probably hear me harp on it a lot on this forum.)

 

[cuate]

Consider Austin, a gaggle of liberal geese, they flock to Austin like a super magnet, Thank God that Texas Goverment's majority is not of their tribe. Keep both eyes open and both hands on your rear in Austin, the conservatives won't molest you but the libs...Thats another subject.

 

[majormadmax]

Considering SAXET is having their first show in Austin in a few weeks (well, the first one in a long time), it'll be interesting to see how this incident affects buyers and sellers.

As I was discussing with an Austinite yesteday when I was buying a Romarm Draco from him, as long as you keep it legal, you've got nothing to worry about!

Still, we may just trek up for the show just to see how things go!

Cheers! M2

 

[TrooperKbC]

For FFLs, and 4433 forms. For private sales ...???

It absolutely applies to both. That's the entire reason there was the thread about whether to check ID for FTF sales or not.

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And in terms a straw purchaser I can recall at least a half a dozen times at various gun shows when a buddy of mine walking around with me wound up buying a gun that I was looking at earlier in the show but passed up on it. To an observer that could sure look a lot like a straw purchase situation but is 100% legit.

As for the situation when you and you buddy are there and he tries to buy what you eyed...better safe than sorry for the seller. Even though in your case it may be legit, if I doesn't look legit, don't do it! If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it may be a chicken, but it sure as hell seems like a duck and that's how I would treat it! I wouldn't have sold to you unless you were both legally elligible. Had Mr. Copeland "ID"ed, or at least not suspected, all members of the party he may have been in the clear. Then he could have claimed the purchaser was qualified.

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As far as racial profiling goes, we are in Texas and we know there is an illegal immigration problem almost 100% from Mexico. If there are other signs common to illegals, such as clothing, accent, and attitude, it's not a "racial" question per se. You wouldn't be asking if they had a New York accent and brown skin, or if they looked Chinese, but spoke like they grew up in the valley, so it's not exactly about their color, right... Although, in hippy huggin, buttpie lovin, liberal, no limits, let the devil into your house so as not to interupt the free love party, morons of Austin, I can see how there are such unclear lines of diversity. j/k (I actually grew up there and some folks are decent people, but GOD am I thankful to be gone!)...then again, the underlaying problem surfaces; people don't know appropriate boundries for who to lovingly accept into their lives because lonely old farts, Disney, and Nickelodeon think everyone should be pals. Okay, I'm done ranting! LOL. Point is, the guy should have known better than to sell the weapon and the jury apparantly could see it in the way he pled his case.

 

[Renegade]

It absolutely applies to both. That's the entire reason there was the thread about whether to check ID for FTF sales or not.

No, if there is no 4473 there is no Straw Sale. A "Straw Sale" is a slang term for lying on a 4473 about who the actual purchaser is. If there is no 4473, there cannot be a Straw Sale.

However, there is also a law about knowingly selling to a prohibited person. This applies whether there is a 4473 or not. This is what he was convicted of.

 

[Sid]

Prior to selling my Sig556 rifle, I read about this case and made a requirement on my classified ad that the buyer must bring a TX CHL license or a TX DL _and_ proof of US Citizenship. The gentleman who bought my rifle understood and brought his DL and Passport. I also added to my Bill of Sale that by signing below, the buyer certifies he is a US Citizen and can legally purchase this firearm under local, state and federal laws. This BoS has been safely filed away.

Just can't take any chances these days.

 

[Renegade]

Prior to selling my Sig556 rifle, I read about this case and made a requirement on my classified ad that the buyer must bring a TX CHL license or a TX DL _and_ proof of US Citizenship. The gentleman who bought my rifle understood and brought his DL and Passport. I also added to my Bill of Sale that by signing below, the buyer certifies he is a US Citizen and can legally purchase this firearm under local, state and federal laws. This BoS has been safely filed away.

Just can't take any chances these days.

Well, you are taking a chance.

if you really do not want to take a chance, sell it to him through an FFL, who will conduct a proper and legal NICS check.