basic warsaw pact load?

[country_boy]

What was the basic warsaw pact ammo load? For rifle and pistol

 

[Dcav]

I think you will find soldiers carried very few pistols unless MOS specified. Basic loadout is probably very similiar to our own. 210 round in 30 round mags. 6 spares plus on in the rifle. Normal pistol load out is 3 mags 1 in the gun 2 spares.

 

[M. Sage]

On pistols, one thing to keep in mind that in Europe and the Russia/the USSR, pistols were (and still are to a great degree) more a badge of rank than a practical weapon. I think it's kind of a throwback to the old days when swords were only worn by nobility. Peasants were pikemen, but the nobles who lead them carried swords. That continued for a while even after swords ceased to be practical on the battlefield...

That even extends to jobs where a pistol would make a ton of sense, like a tank crew. For a long time they issued tankers SMGs. The AKS-74U is a tank crew weapon. That's why they're so popular in Haji videos. It's a way of bragging about what a badass you are (you did kill a tank to get that rifle, after all).

 

[shortround]

In oppressive societies (USSR, NAZI Germany, Fascist Italy, Islamo-Fascist Iran, Ancient & Modern Mexico) pistols were typically issued to ranking members of the ruling party or criminal class to administer the coupe de grace to victims of firing squads.

It was/is used as a means to terrorize the people, since immediately behind the man with the pistol was/is a firing squad.

When the man with the pistol shows up in you neighborhood, bad things were/are sure to follow.

The common denominator in all those societies: An unarmed populace.

Alabama: 6 LSU: 3

Be well.

 

[suhsjake]

Officers, Senior NCO, Armor Crew, etc... are only issued pistols

Soviet Motor Rifleman (Mechanized Infantry, Pre Afghanistan)

Garrison Order
Kepi
Ushanka
Watch Cap
M69 HEBE Uniform
Jack Boots

Fighting Order (plus above order)
SSh-68 Helmet
AK-74
- One Magazine
Soviet Y-Suspenders and Belt (similar to our ALICE, but made of Rubberized Canvas)
One Magazine Pouch (4 Cell)
- Four Magazines
- Oilier
- Cleaning Kit
- Four Stripper Clips and Loader
- Blank Firing Adapter (training only)
One Grenade Pouch
- 2 RGD-5 Grenades
One Entrenching tool carrier
- Entrenching Tool (Saperka)
One Bayonet Sheath and Frog
- Type Two Bayonet
One Canteen Pouch
- One Canteen (Flyashka)
One Gas Mask Carrier with Sling (Only issued if possibility of NBC warfare)
- PBF Gas Mask

Marching Order (plus above orders)
Veshmeshok (rucksack/backpack)
- 2 wool blankets
- 1 poncho (platsch-palatka)
- 2 spare canteens (Flyashka)
- Spare Uniform/Under Garments
- Boot Cleaning Kit/Sewing Kit
- Mess Kit/Hygiene Kit
- Field Rations

 

[country_boy]

Wow ok thanks. Ive been reading a lot about the afgan war in the 80's. I notice mention of pre Afghanistan. What changed during that war?

In my bug out vest I have my glock with 3 mags always good to have a secondary.

 

[suhsjake]

A couple of things. First with the mass introduction of body armor for all troops. The Soviets had developed the 6B1 flak jacket (much like our own used in Vietnam) in 1957, but only produced around 1500. Once they started loosing tons of soldiers, did the Soviet High Command ordered the development of a mass producible armor made of ballistic nylon and titanium plates. It was later upgraded to the 6B3 and 6B4. The 6B5 was adopted after Afghanistan and saw use throughout the 1990s and into the early 2000s. It is replaced by the 6BXX series of armors. Surprisingly, the Russians recently just adopted a Kevlar helmet for widespread issue, the 6B7. Up until that point, the issued helmet was the steel SSh-68 helmet.

Second was the adoption of a lighter uniform, the tan M88 Afghanka. The Soviets developed TTsKO camo and VSR camo during this time, but did not see use until after.

Some new weapon systems started coming into mass use as well including the BG-15, later replaced by the GP-25 Grenade Launcher. The AK-74 also received plum colored polymer furniture, but only in limited use. The AKS-74 slowly replaced the AK-74 as the general issue rife, not only for VDV units. This later led to the folding stock on the AK-74M.

Also, it is quite common to see pinkish/red tubing wrapped around the AKS-74 Stock. It is not to aid in shooting, but in fact a tourniquet with a bandage in the cavity. The issued first aid kit comprised a small package with said bandage and tourniquet. It was done for easy access and was a common practice in Afghanistan.

Finally, was the adoption of better load bearing equipment. Soviet Soldiers were using captured or bought the three magazine Type 56 chest rigs as well as a few four magazine Type 81 chest rigs (chicoms) and DIY chest rigs made from ammo pouches, slings, etc. The High Command caught on and ordered the production of an improved chicom for general issue, the Liefchik, as well as the Grad-1/Grad-2 (similar to the US LBV) for special units (MVD, VDV, Naval Infantry, and Spetsnaz).

Little side bar on the Chicoms. You can stretch them out to hold six magazines because they are made of canvas. Soak Chicom in warm water and force in two magazines per pouches. Let it completely dry. Repeat until both magazines easily fit in pouch. There is also a second Type 56 chest rig with ten clip pouches, designed for the SKS based Type 56 Carbine.

Most Warsaw Pact countries based their equipment set ups on the Soviet designs, just with a few changes to suit their needs. You have probably seen many different types of AK pouches. 3 Cell AK pouches were made for AKMs while 4 Cells were made for AK-74. Each country produced their own (Tan/Light Tan is Soviet/Russian). Czechoslovakia was different and used a different magazine system for the Vz. 58, so I cannot speak for them.

As stated above, pistols (the TT-33 and later the Makarov PM) were issued to Officers, Senior NCOs, Medics, Vehicle Drivers, and Military Police. But in reality, most elected to use a rifle (either the AKS-74U or AK-74) when in an actual combat environment.

Soviet Soldier (most likely VDV), Circa 1980/81.

SSh-68, KLMK Jumpsuit, 6B2 Armor with Chicom Chest rig over the top.

 

[TheDan]

On pistols, one thing to keep in mind that in Europe and the Russia/the USSR, pistols were (and still are to a great degree) more a badge of rank than a practical weapon. I think it's kind of a throwback to the old days when swords were only worn by nobility. Peasants were pikemen, but the nobles who lead them carried swords. That continued for a while even after swords ceased to be practical on the battlefield...

There is a lot of symbolism there, but there are some practicalities to it. A handgun is generally a defensive weapon or only a last ditch offensive one. Rifles/carbines/SMGs do the "work". Officers are commanding, not doing the grunt work, so why do they need anything other than a handgun? Now it does make a lot of sense to equip infantry with a handgun for backup, but that is an awful lot of handguns you need to produce for little gain.

Swords are pretty silly, but again they could be a handy defensive weapon. Inside of 2yards I think a sword or large knife is more effective than a handgun. That's just another layer of junk you have to carry around and train with, however. A sword does make a good psychological weapon... Getting shot is bad, but getting "cut" is worse.