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  • robertc1024

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    Since Ben brought up some great ones, has anybody shot a Sig Sauer P210? One of the new ones. I can't see buying a real Sig P210 because I don't have an extra 5 grand sitting around.
     

    bigwheel

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    I have an itch I need scratched. I have been researching and trying to find a suppressor ready full size handgun. I know everyone is going to say try before you buy and I will but I want to run some research by you. At the top of nearly every 9mm test comes the CZ SP01. They all trickle down from there with FNX9, Springfield XDM, Glock 17, Beretta 92FS, Walther P99AS and PPQ, couple Sigs...some throw HK VP9 on there depending on age of test (and who's testing). The ones that seemed to make basically every list were the SA XDM, CZ SP01 and FNX9. I know we have some members that have fired everything but I am mostly interested in those 3 unless you have a great story or argument for a different model.
    Not to beg the question but why would anybody want a big 9 mm? They are making them about as small as some .25 and .380s many of us lugged around in the back pocket for a long time. Hit men in the biker gangs should invest in a Ruger .22 semi auto and use subsonic rounds. If the temps .humidity and silencer is right..its about about at loud as a loud snap of the fingers.
     

    bigwheel

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    Since Ben brought up some great ones, has anybody shot a Sig Sauer P210? One of the new ones. I can't see buying a real Sig P210 because I don't have an extra 5 grand sitting around.
    Not me. When I got the P 226 forty cal. I quit looking for a pistol. its small enough to hide and big enough to make an impact when a bad old deal comes up. They say..havent put it to an ultimate test but our confidence levels are high.
     

    smittyb

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    Not to beg the question but why would anybody want a big 9 mm? They are making them about as small as some .25 and .380s many of us lugged around in the back pocket for a long time. Hit men in the biker gangs should invest in a Ruger .22 semi auto and use subsonic rounds. If the temps .humidity and silencer is right..its about about at loud as a loud snap of the fingers.
    Because they want to suppress it and have useable sights.
    Now you could suppress one of those lil guys your talking about, but it wouldn’t be little anymore, and they generally don’t have suppressor ready sights.
     

    Mowingmaniac 24/7

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    I own a wee Ruger LC9 (yard gun) but it's snappishness has caused to buy (today) a full size pistola.

    Originally, I bought the Ruger for it's light weight, but I don't care for it, and since this is a yard gun, I'm buying a S&W SD9VE. Yep, a budget gun, but with lots of rounds and heavy enough not to be snap-pee.

    Yeah, it comes with a heavy trigger, but that can be fixed with a spring kit, though I won't do it until I shot some...
     

    Kar98

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    Not to beg the question but why would anybody want a big 9 mm? They are making them about as small as some .25 and .380s many of us lugged around in the back pocket for a long time.

    Yes, and I have a Kimber Micro 9. It's reliable, it a solid piece of craftsmanship, and it certainly hits in the general direction of where you point it at. But even though it's a "micro 1911", the trigger on it makes it no fun to practice with at the range, and I think one should practice with one's carry gun.
     

    rl96ss

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    Doesn't get much better than the CZ SP-01 as far as suppressor ready.

    Most of the others offer the threaded barrel, but not the high sights. Really nice shooter too, great balance, feels great in hand and weight not an issue.

    Shown with Rugged Obsidian.
    x3bam1.jpg
     

    DD130

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    Because they want to suppress it and have useable sights.
    Now you could suppress one of those lil guys your talking about, but it wouldn’t be little anymore, and they generally don’t have suppressor ready sights.
    My SIG 239 single stack 9mm has a threaded barrel, but normal hight sights.. so I guess it's not fully suppressor ready.

    I do have a CZ75B Omega that I put on layaway a couple of weeks ago that is suppressor ready. Maybe I'll go pick it up today and post some info. I really like the form factor and ergos of he CZ's... but I'm a big Beretta fan too, I keep drifting back and forth between them... one thing for certain though.. I've sold off all but 1 Glock and haven't shot it since last year.
     

    grumper

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    Since Ben brought up some great ones, has anybody shot a Sig Sauer P210? One of the new ones. I can't see buying a real Sig P210 because I don't have an extra 5 grand sitting around.

    According to several posters on Sigforum the P210A models are every bit as accurate as the made in Germany Legends. They changed the design to make it quicker and cheaper to produce though.

    I dunno first hand, never tried the USA models because already have a German one. I wish I had gotten one of the Swiss or Danish surplus originals back before they were $5k. :pounce:
     

    gshayd

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    There are quite a few 9mms out there. I own a SIG Mk 25, A Browning 9mm, Glock Model 26, 2 Canik 9mms, S&W M&P Custom ShopSA XDM and A PPQ M2 Q4 TAC. My favorite is my SA XDM and the S&W Custom Shop M&Ps with a 5" and 4" barrel.
     

    Andyd

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    First, let me say that I do not think that we will ever reach a consensus about any one firearm being the best for everybody. The choice of a handgun is always personal and changes with intended purpose and also exposure to firearms and experience. I like classic 9mm metal framed pistols and will list a few of my little collection and then some utility gun.


    SIG 210
    Built by Schweizerische Industriegesellschaft in Neuhausen / Switzerland from 1949 on and used by the Swiss and Danish military and in limited numbers of 5,000 by the German borderguards this pistol was quickly adopted by European civilian shooters for their astonishing quality and accuracy. A removeable hammer unit that is numbered to the gun makes cleaning easier. This gun displays an amazingly good finish inside and out!
    I love the Swiss SIG P210 series, having owned two of them and only parting with one that was gifted to my oldest son, I find this to be an exceptional semi automatic service pistol! It is made to very close tolerances and has a superb trigger. The service trigger has a 1 kg trigger spring while the sports triggers of the -5 and -6 models have a 500 gr spring. The pistol is slim and elegant, having a low bore axis, it does not move a lot when being fired. The most common complaint about the P210 is hammer bite. The Danish Army just trimmed the hammer spurs down, I have included a photo of a trimmed Danish hammer and a complete hammer unit for a -1 to -4, while the -5 and -6 have the hammer unit affixed to the frame by an extra screw.

    SIG_P210_review.jpg


    Browning Model 35
    Generally known as the High Power, or Grand Puissance in French, this gun was the first military pistol using a double stack high capacity magazine at its introduction in 1935. This pistol has a lengthy military career, being adopted by too many countries to list.
    The Belgian Brownings still have a large following after all these years and when I shoot mine, I understand why. It also has a low bare axis and does not feel blocky in my hand, it is a well balanced pistol which allows fast follow up shots ,while having good accuracy. The trigger pull is usually suffering from the magazine safety but the safety can easily be removed to improve the trigger pull characteristics. It does not do wonders, though, the way that the trigger bar is working and guides forces through the slide is complicated and not easy to improve beyond a certain point.

    FN_HP_35_review.jpg



    SIG Sauer P220
    Developed in Switzerland by SIG, this gun was designed as the successor to the SIG P49 (P210) used by the Swiss military and built at the SIG Sauer plant in Eckernfoerde, Germany.
    To me this is a simple no-frills service gun of good quality with a good trigger and sights. It is easy to manipulate the safety and DA/SA trigger and displays good accuracy. The grip angle is suiting me but the bore axis is high and this gun is not as elegant and slim as the P210.

    SIG_Sauer_P220_review.jpg


    Walther / Manurhin P1
    This version of the pistol was developed after WWII and received an aluminium alloy frame to become the new service pistol for the newly founded West German Bundeswehr. The P.38 had been the first locked breech DA/SA pistol and was designed in 1938, starting production in 1939. Unlike the other guns in this small review, it does not use a Browning locking mechanism but a moving locking block that lives on in the Beretta 92. It is also the only one that ejects to the left.
    The P.38 was designed as a replacement of the very expensive and complicated to manufacture Luger P.08. It is a simple service pistol that was used by a military where handguns and handgun training have never played an important role. The P38 / P1 is accurate but the grip angle makes feeding hollow points a bit tricky and follow up shots are hard to do fast. This was my service pistol in a West German Panzergtrenadier Batallion where I was chosen to sight the pistols in and competed successfully with the P1 in military & police competitions.

    Walther_P1_review.jpg



    Walther P88
    Introduced in 1988 for participation in military tenders, the P88 was only built until 1996 since no major military or police contract were ever won by this gun. It saw interest from the civilian shooting community because of its good accuracy but the AWB that was introduced in 1994 curtailed interest in this expensive pistol.
    The P88 is a well made gun that has great accuracy and a good enough grip angle to fire the pistol fast. Many shooters with smaller hands complain about the grip being too large and the levers hard to manipulate. I do not have a problem with that and used the P88 for a steel plate competition shoot for one season.

    Walther_P88_review.jpg


    5_gun_review.jpg


    All of the above semi automatic 9 mm pistols are well made classics in today's market of plastic framed pistols that are giving good service at a superior price point. The main difference is in the charisma that these old traditionally manufactured guns ooze out. I consider all of them accurate enough to use in 25 m centerfire pistol matches but, of course, have my favourite: the SIG P210-6 for 25 m accuracy and the overall quality. It isn't just the trigger pull weight or the sheer mechanical accuracy that intrigues me, it is the shootability, it's the trigger characteristics, how the pistol fits my hand and inspires confidence.

    My son has this CZ that is a very well made and accurate pistol. It offers a lot of value for the money!
    IMG_3342.jpg


    My son also has this 9mm RIA that I gave him for Christmas a few years ago and for range use he really loves it.
    RIA.jpg


    Even though it is not at all a traditionally made gun, the Glocks have captured my interest since over 20 years and with a few improvements can be as accurate as my P210-6 at a fraction of its cost.

    Glock_G17_accuracy.jpg
     

    benenglish

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    ...my little collection...
    Our respective definitions of "little" are not in sync.

    Seriously, looking back on your writings, I'd be curious (start another thread or expand your intro thread if you really want to answer this) how you got to your current state of collecting. Most gun collectors waste an incredible amount of money on crap before they realize that quality is worth the price. You seem to have figured that out far better than most. You actually own the 210, the Belgian Browning, and the Korths that most people think of as "someday" guns but never actually acquire.

    Were you just smart from the beginning? Did being in Germany make such a huge difference in your outlook? Or have you managed to churn through all the junk and whittle down your collection to almost all good stuff?

    I know this post is prying; you're free to ignore it. For the record, though, I think you're an interesting guy with a very interesting collection.

    Or maybe I'm just jealous of all those Korths. :)
     

    Andyd

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    Our respective definitions of "little" are not in sync.

    Seriously, looking back on your writings, I'd be curious (start another thread or expand your intro thread if you really want to answer this) how you got to your current state of collecting. Most gun collectors waste an incredible amount of money on crap before they realize that quality is worth the price. You seem to have figured that out far better than most. You actually own the 210, the Belgian Browning, and the Korths that most people think of as "someday" guns but never actually acquire.

    Were you just smart from the beginning? Did being in Germany make such a huge difference in your outlook? Or have you managed to churn through all the junk and whittle down your collection to almost all good stuff?

    I know this post is prying; you're free to ignore it. For the record, though, I think you're an interesting guy with a very interesting collection.

    Or maybe I'm just jealous of all those Korths. :)

    After leaving the German military I joined a private pistol club to learn real pistol craft from very experienced competition shooters. I started out with club owned rimfire guns, a Colt Officers Model Match and a FN International 150. We shot at 25 meters, so the proper equipment was needed. I had the chance to shoot the guns of the other members, many of whom were quite affluent, Korths, P210s, Freedom Arms Casulls, Hammerlis, and everything in between. I competed on state level in military and also civilian competition and quickly got a Hammerli International and a Gehmann Walther GSP. I learnt that the right grips and trigger pull will improve the results. Nevertheless, when I lived in Indiana I had a friend who was a gun dealer and bought guns from law enforcement auctions. I had bought guns by the shoebox from him, from the .25 Raven, .22 Roehm, H&R top breaks, Galesis, to S&W and Colt revolvers. Enough for the Sheriff to ask about me.

    I love guns, reloading and shooting and have passed this love on to my sons. I dragged them to the gun range since pre-K and we have a S&W 22A that we put over 110,000 rounds through.

    Incidentally, my oldest son, who moved to Westlake, OH, this year to work there as a resident doctor in emergency medicine is doing his range certification for his Ohio carry permit after his Florida permit expired.
     

    benenglish

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    Gehmann Walther GSP
    I've always liked those. Did you have the training trigger? My recollection from way back when was that many shooters had trouble getting them to work properly.

    It's nice to see a shooter get off on good footing. Your early exposure to quality has served you well.

    I'll leave this with a plug and a plea - The Family Reunion for TGT is twice a year, is always fun, and you'd be very, very welcome. Hope to see you there.
     

    Andyd

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    I've always liked those. Did you have the training trigger? My recollection from way back when was that many shooters had trouble getting them to work properly.

    It's nice to see a shooter get off on good footing. Your early exposure to quality has served you well.

    I'll leave this with a plug and a plea - The Family Reunion for TGT is twice a year, is always fun, and you'd be very, very welcome. Hope to see you there.

    I had the training trigger for the GSP but never really used it a lot. I shot air pistol for practice during the week and went to the range every Saturday and found the airgun to be the better training tool for accuracy than dryfiring.

    I had gotten a used Walther LP53 for that purpose and later replaced it with a FWB 65.
    LP65003.jpg
    LP53.jpg
     
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