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  • txbikerman

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    I have read thru this thread. Despite all he explanations in it, i continue to be confused about bitcoin. My opinion is that if i cant hold it in my hand, it isn't real. I know money in the bank can be converted into cash. Think i will pass on bitcoins
     

    winchster

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    So what happens when the 21 million is all held? The arguments made against the gold standard would seem to apply here as well.
     

    jordanmills

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    Well that escalated quickly.

    No bitcoins for me. I don't know much about them and don't see myself getting interested.
    I know, right?

    I bet you will get interested soon enough. It's basically going to be what paypal was supposed to be, but more pervasive. Though it is hard to beat cash or silver when meeting face to face. Like I've already said, don't jump into it until you learn more about it.

    I have read thru this thread. Despite all he explanations in it, i continue to be confused about bitcoin. My opinion is that if i cant hold it in my hand, it isn't real. I know money in the bank can be converted into cash. Think i will pass on bitcoins
    You sure about that? What happens if you have a million bucks in the bank, walk down to your local wellfartgo, and ask them for a million in cash?

    So what happens when the 21 million is all held? The arguments made against the gold standard would seem to apply here as well.
    Not sure what you're getting at. When it's all held, it's all held. There won't be any more.
     

    Younggun

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    OR, the while thing goes bust.

    If it becomes as pervasive as you claim it will be the downfall of any privacy in private transactions. How great it would be if the gov could just look at your name and see everything you have bought in the last 6 months.

    No more need for firearms registration.

    Sorry, I don't think it's nearly a big as you believe. For all the coverage most of us have not heard of it until this thread. The media jumping on it and the gov supporting it doesn't do much in the way of credibility for me. The gov is also supporting the NSAs eavesdropping on everyone's electronic communications but that doesn't make it a good thing.
     

    winchster

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    My point being, why invent something out of thin air when there is already a naturally occurring finite resource available to do exactly what the purveyors of bitcoin wish to create?
     

    jordanmills

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    OR, the while thing goes bust.

    If it becomes as pervasive as you claim it will be the downfall of any privacy in private transactions. How great it would be if the gov could just look at your name and see everything you have bought in the last 6 months.

    No more need for firearms registration.

    Sorry, I don't think it's nearly a big as you believe. For all the coverage most of us have not heard of it until this thread. The media jumping on it and the gov supporting it doesn't do much in the way of credibility for me. The gov is also supporting the NSAs eavesdropping on everyone's electronic communications but that doesn't make it a good thing.

    Fair point. Two counters. One is that there's nothing tying a transaction to an item. Nobody knows what you bought. Second, there's not necessarily any correlation between a wallet/key and an individual. One person can have a dozen wallets and can keep them completely separate. And there's nothing to say that a transfer from one wallet to another wasn't trading cash or gold to someone in an anonymous transaction.

    But it bears saying again, the entire block chain and every transaction can easily be read by anybody.
     

    jordanmills

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    You said you didn't understand my point. I'm not bashing it, I'm attempting to have a rational discourse.

    Yeah, I didn't get that it was a reply to me. The quote button is useful... And I appreciate the rational discourse.

    There are three things gold doesn't do easily that bitcoin does.

    One is divide into incredibly tiny fractions. I can give you $0.000006 worth of bitcoin right now with almost no effort. I don't see gold or silver doing that. And as the value inflates, more people get on, and parts of the supply is lost, that 0.00000001 BTC is going to be worth more.

    Two is be carried and stored in arbitrary amounts with little overhead (and no overhead that increases with balance). You can carry $1500 worth of gold pretty easily - stick a one ounce coin in your pocket. It's great for walking through customs, not that I know anyone who knows anything about that. Carrying $15,000 worth of gold isn't a big deal, though pounds add up. But a billion dollars worth of gold is three hundred some odd tons - kind of a silly value. But a million dollars worth is still almost seven hundred pounds. That's not an unreasonable amount of wealth for one person to collect, but it would be a pain to move. Expensive too. If you use bitcoin, the same computer or the same 5 gram sheet of paper printed with the private key can carry 0.01 BTC or 15000 BTC.

    Third is be verifiably and irrevocably transferred anywhere to anyone at any time at an absurdly low cost and nearly complete confidence in a matter of minutes. What would it take for you to get your gold coin to china to buy some magic river fish or whatever?
     

    winchster

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    Yeah, I didn't get that it was a reply to me. The quote button is useful... And I appreciate the rational discourse.

    There are three things gold doesn't do easily that bitcoin does.

    One is divide into incredibly tiny fractions. I can give you $0.000006 worth of bitcoin right now with almost no effort. I don't see gold or silver doing that. And as the value inflates, more people get on, and parts of the supply is lost, that 0.00000001 BTC is going to be worth more.

    Two is be carried and stored in arbitrary amounts with little overhead (and no overhead that increases with balance). You can carry $1500 worth of gold pretty easily - stick a one ounce coin in your pocket. It's great for walking through customs, not that I know anyone who knows anything about that. Carrying $15,000 worth of gold isn't a big deal, though pounds add up. But a billion dollars worth of gold is three hundred some odd tons - kind of a silly value. But a million dollars worth is still almost seven hundred pounds. That's not an unreasonable amount of wealth for one person to collect, but it would be a pain to move. Expensive too. If you use bitcoin, the same computer or the same 5 gram sheet of paper printed with the private key can carry 0.01 BTC or 15000 BTC.

    Third is be verifiably and irrevocably transferred anywhere to anyone at any time at an absurdly low cost and nearly complete confidence in a matter of minutes. What would it take for you to get your gold coin to china to buy some magic river fish or whatever?

    Didn't feel like quoting the multi quote lol.
    Your argument loses punch when you consider that the current "value" of gold is artificial. It's value, could increase to the same place that the bitcoin is, merely due to its finite nature. So, a billion might weigh 700 pounds instead of tons. The only thing I can agree with is the portability you mentioned. However, I'm sure an enterprising young somebody could contrive a way to shuffle it around. Isn't that how banks began? Total transparency of transaction isn't something I would enjoy.

    The argument for Bitcoin is the same argument for gold standard. We both advocate the same thing, just in differing manners. In my mind though, gold has something bitcoin does not, it is a real substance vs a completely artificial one.
     

    Leper

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    There was a guy at the last Ft Worth gunshow selling bitcoin. I meant to buy some, but the wife got restless at the amount of time we had already been there. Then Monday happened and I wished I would have taken the time.
     

    jordanmills

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    Didn't feel like quoting the multi quote lol.
    Your argument loses punch when you consider that the current "value" of gold is artificial. It's value, could increase to the same place that the bitcoin is, merely due to its finite nature. So, a billion might weigh 700 pounds instead of tons. The only thing I can agree with is the portability you mentioned. However, I'm sure an enterprising young somebody could contrive a way to shuffle it around. Isn't that how banks began? Total transparency of transaction isn't something I would enjoy.

    The argument for Bitcoin is the same argument for gold standard. We both advocate the same thing, just in differing manners. In my mind though, gold has something bitcoin does not, it is a real substance vs a completely artificial one.

    Not all the value of gold is artificial. There is significant intrinsic value, especially in medicine and electronics. Gold is critical in modern semiconductor/IC/board manufacturing.

    I don't think bitcoin is any less real than gold. Less tangible, certainly (which is probably the point you were getting at), but no less real.
     

    jordanmills

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    There was a guy at the last Ft Worth gunshow selling bitcoin. I meant to buy some, but the wife got restless at the amount of time we had already been there. Then Monday happened and I wished I would have taken the time.

    Lol yeah. I've kicked myself a few times like that. Well I'm sure bubbles will happen again - they do to all currencies.
     

    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
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    Apr 4, 2011
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    I've done a little research and a lot of thinking.

    While bitcoin seems to have established value, I'm out.

    No bashing, not judging. Just that "gut" feeling I can't shake.
     
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