buckshot vs slug for home defense ?

[satx78247]

Karamoja Bell shot most of his 1,011 elephants with a .257 Rigby. Nowhere in Africa would that even be allowed in the last 30 years.

baboon,

TRUE, though Karamoja Bell said that a shotgun was THE weapon for STOPPING a wounded dangerous animal. = The .275 Rigby/7x57 Mauser also certainly worked for him as well.

You cannot argue with Bell's success as a PH, though a British NCO during WWII, shooting game to feed Italian/German POWs, MAY have surpassed Bell's take. The SGT's weapon was a "plain vanilla" British SMLE.
(Nobody as far as I can find is sure about which one "owns" the "record".)

yours, satx

 

[baboon]

baboon,

TRUE, though Karamoja Bell said that a shotgun was THE weapon for STOPPING a wounded dangerous animal. = The .275 Rigby/7x57 Mauser also certainly worked for him as well.

You cannot argue with Bell's success as a PH, though a British NCO during WWII, shooting game to feed Italian/German POWs, MAY have surpassed Bell's take. The SGT's weapon was a "plain vanilla" British SMLE.
(Nobody as far as I can find is sure about which one "owns" the "record".)

yours, satx

The British SMLE most likely killed more tigers & dangerous African game then any other gun in history. Sort of like the 30/30 killing more animals in North America.

 

[candcallen]

Regarding "the winner" in online discussions.

The hulk of a man with a beer in his hand he looked like a drunk old fool
And I knew if I hit him right why I could knock him off of that stool
But everybody they said watch out hey that's the Tiger Man McCool
He's had the whole lotta fights and he's always come out winner yeah he's a winner.

But I had myself about five too many and I walked up tall and proud
I faced his back and I faced the fact that he had never stooped or bowed
I said Tiger Man you're a pussycat and a hush fell on the crowd
I said let's you and me go outside and see who's the winner.

Well he gripped the bar with one big hairy hand then he braced against the wall
He slowly looked up from his beer my God that man was tall
He said boy I see you're a scrapper so just before you fall
I'm gonna tell you just a little bout what it means to be a winner.

He said now you see these bright white smilin' teeth you know they ain't my own
Mine rolled away like Chicklets down the street in San Antone
But I left that person cursin' nursin' seven broken bones
And he only broke ah three of mine that makes me the winner.

He said now behind this grin I got a steel pin that holds my jaw in place
A trophy of my most successful motorcycle race
And each morning when I wake and touch this scar across my face
It reminds me of all I got by bein' a winner.

Now this broken back was the dyin' act of a handsome Harry Clay
That sticky Cincinnati night I stole his wife away
But that woman she gets uglier and she gets meaner every day
But I got her boy that's what makes me a winner.

He said you gotta speak loud when you challenge me son cause it's hard for me to hear
With this twisted neck and these migraine pains and this big ole cauliflower ear
And if it wadn't for this glass eye of mine why I'd shed a happy tear
To think of all that you gonna get by bein' a winner.

I got arthritic elbows boy I got dislocated knees
From pickin' fights with thunderstorms and chargin' into trees
And my nose been broke so often I might lose if I sneeze
And son you say you still wanna be a winner.

Now you remind me a lotta my younger days with your knuckles a clenchin' white
But boy I'm gonna sit right here and sip this beer all night
And if there's somethin' that you gotta gain to prove by winnin' some silly fight
Well okay I quit I lose you're the winner.

So I stumbled from that barroom not so tall and not so proud
And behind me I still hear the hoots of laughter of the crowd
But my eyes still see and my nose still works and my teeth're still in my mouth
And you know I guess that makes me the winner

 

[Bithabus]

The caliber of 00 buck is .32

And they weigh 53 grains. And don't expand

 

[satx78247]

The British SMLE most likely killed more tigers & dangerous African game then any other gun in history. Sort of like the 30/30 killing more animals in North America.

baboon,

I suspect that you are 100% correct. - Certainly COL Jim Corbett took a large number of man-eating leopards, tigers, gaur & other assorted game in British India, Burma & perhaps in other nations, with a "Plain Jane" SMLE.
(COL Corbett took at least one "rogue elephant", that was tearing-up private property in India with his SMLE. - The reported range from which he killed the elephant was about 30 yards.)

Note: Because he was out of ammo for the SMLE, COL Corbett borrowed a MUZZLELOADING musket in 8-gauge & took a "stock-killing" leopard, while "balanced upon & clinging to a lofty limb" of a tall tree. - He later recounted (I suspect with considerable British understatement) that the recoil "dislodged me from my perch & tumbled me to the ground. Luckily, the hungry leopardess had expired before I alighted."

Fwiw, I went to undergrad school (LONG AGO when dinosaurs roamed the Earth) with a serving CANADIAN RANGER (Ivan Lark was a Blood Indian.), who claimed that he had taken numerous grizzly & polar bears with his issued SMLE Mk1 III*, as well as seals, walrus, musk oxen, deer & moose with his rifle.
(Canadian Rangers are allowed by law/regulation to hunt with their issued weapons, as are the US Alaskan Scouts.)

yours, satx

 

[candcallen]

Let's talk Cape Buffalo with 10mm handgun.

 

[baboon]

Let's talk Cape Buffalo with 10mm handgun.

Good luck bringing a 10mm pistol into a country that has Cape Buffalo! 20+ years ago bring a handgun had gotten much harder to do over the previous 10 years.

 

[candcallen]

Google Razor Dobbs 10 mm hunting. I would not have believed it if I didnt see it. Hes taken everything but Elephant with 10mm Auto 1911 5 inch Dan Wesson. Multiple cape Buffalo, shoulder shots that all but exited the other side. He uses the Buffalo Bore and double tap ammo. The results are impressive.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Google Razor Dobbs 10 mm hunting. I would not have believed it if I didnt see it. Hes taken everything but Elephant with 10mm Auto 1911 5 inch Dan Wesson. Multiple cape Buffalo, shoulder shots that all but exited the other side. He uses the Buffalo Bore and double tap ammo. The results are impressive.

That's the only 10mm I buy, or recommend.

 

[Charlie]

A six inch barrel would even be better!

 

[easy rider]

Google Razor Dobbs 10 mm hunting. I would not have believed it if I didnt see it. Hes taken everything but Elephant with 10mm Auto 1911 5 inch Dan Wesson. Multiple cape Buffalo, shoulder shots that all but exited the other side. He uses the Buffalo Bore and double tap ammo. The results are impressive.

Is this the new Tide Pod challenge?

 

[candcallen]

If you like eating 10mm handguns who am I to stop you .

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I thought it was more along the lines of how insane it would be to hunt Cape buffalo with just a 10mm.

 

[baboon]

I thought it was more along the lines of how insane it would be to hunt Cape buffalo with just a 10mm.

I'm stunned it was allowed, but not completely surprised. Every year I hunted in RSA I brought a handgun. They were fixing to only allow .357 & up & it had to be scoped IIRC. IIRC no semi auto rifle, shotguns or pistols where allowed back then. I Couldn't help but notice he had 2 P.H.'s backing him up.

 

[easy rider]

It's one thing to have a handgun with you hunting, quite another to use a handgun as your primary weapon for hunting big game.

 

[candcallen]

I thought it was more along the lines of how insane it would be to hunt Cape buffalo with just a 10mm.

Was just joking about eating it.

Yep, insane is definitely not out of the conversation when hunting dangerous African game with a handgun. On the other Hand a double rifle, while being fast, seems woefully lacking in firepower 10 feet from a charging wounded cape Buffalo.

The same question goes for bow hunters depending on the game and back up. Can you successfully stalk close enough to a grizz or Buffalo with 2 or 3 PH as armed back up or can you do it safely. That's one line I wouldnt want to walk cause falling off may just kill ya.

 

[baboon]

Was just joking about eating it.

Yep, insane is definitely not out of the conversation when hunting dangerous African game with a handgun. On the other Hand a double rifle, while being fast, seems woefully lacking in firepower 10 feet from a charging wounded cape Buffalo.

The same question goes for bow hunters depending on the game and back up. Can you successfully stalk close enough to a grizz or Buffalo with 2 or 3 PH as armed back up or can you do it safely. That's one line I wouldnt want to walk cause falling off may just kill ya.

http://twodotranch.com/index.php?option=com_igallery&view=category&igid=23&Itemid=171
Byron Sadler did all his hunting with a bow. His wife Sandra used a gun. Check out their trophy room pictures. Pictures don't do it justice!

 

[satx78247]

I'm stunned it was allowed, but not completely surprised. Every year I hunted in RSA I brought a handgun. They were fixing to only allow .357 & up & it had to be scoped IIRC. IIRC no semi auto rifle, shotguns or pistols where allowed back then. I Couldn't help but notice he had 2 P.H.'s backing him up.

baboon,

Fyi, I'm planning on taking my XB with me to Africa for Cape Buffalo, plains game & hopefully a leopard.
(My main weapon will be my, as "reformatted" by JES, Model 760 Remington pump-rifle in 9.3x62mm, which is my "big bore". = YES, I know that the 9.3mm is considered a "medium bore" in most of Africa, but I think it fully suitable for Cape Buff & leopard.)

Frankly, I'm STUNNED at any nation's Game Department would allow a handgun to be used to shoot a Cape Buff. = Dead "foreign hunters" are bad PR for African governments, that make a considerable amount of their budget from tourism.
Sounds like "attempted suicide" to me.

yours, satx

 

[Big Green]

I settled on #4 buck for my HD shotgun. It is just a Mossberg 500 with cylinder bore. I watched ballistic gel penetration videos and read blogs and forums for days. Being in a neighborhood, I didn't want a good chance of anything going into a neighbors house. 00 buck just looked like too much penetration vs lethality for my area. The bird shot loads were the opposite. #4 buck seemed to be the goldilocks load.

Did a lot of reading many years ago about this topic and I settled on that also for my wife’s shotgun on her side of the bed. Tube is loaded, nothing in the chamber and safety is off. All she has to do is rack it and go to work. I found a 20ga, low recoil, #4 buckshot, I believe it’s a Federal round.

 

[BRD@66]

#4 buck was difficult for me to find. Impossibly so, locally. Got a box from SGAmmo.