Bullpup design muzzle blast, etc.

[billtool]

I’ve never fired a bullpup anything. Is there a perceived increase in recoil and/or concussed air? Referring to non-can guns of any caliber.

 

[tonelar]

vs a conventional rifle with similar bbl length?

i’m going to say “no”

 

[Dawico]

Recoil should be the same given that both guns fit you well and are similar in weight.

The concussive blast will be closer to your face so that will increase. In my experience it's not enough to avoid bullpups in general though.

If you have a particular bullpup in mind members may be able to help with your questions more.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

 

[oldag]

AR pistols are no big deal. Don't think a bullpup would be any different.

 

[craigntx]

When the air is still you definitely breathe the fumes more

 

[BeatTheTunaUp]

I don't notice anything, but I didn't run a break on the end like I usually do. Wound up using a compensator like this one.

 

[zackmars]

AR pistols are no big deal. Don't think a bullpup would be any different.

Pretty much this. The blast is closer to your face, but the barrel is longer compared to an 10" or 11" ar barrel.

The recoil impulse will be different, typically less pleasant than an AR, but thats due to the operating system more than anything

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Shoot an AR pistol with no hearing protection once. Same thing.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Well IMO the blast/sound is barely noticeable VS the same length bbl of a M4. That said I came into the M 14 Army and that is LOUD!

Perhaps drifting from the OP question: I think it time the Army get a grip on war fighters. We now have the tech to give the boots on the battlefield a 2 gun world.

1) A bit of engineering and we take the best action ever designed (AR) and make it a bullpup. I have handled and shot the TAVPR and I am here to tell you I want one on the killing fields with me.

2). 1 gun, 2 barrels, SBR and LBR. While I thought the M 16 was a vast improvement vs the M 14 from a maneuverability view, I still felt the M 16 was to long for combat in the jungles or in any forested enviro.

3) SBR does not work well in the desert and in the cities. When you deploy you know where you are going.

4) Each weapon comes with 2 bbls, one short, one long and one is kept in the Arms room. Each bbl has a serial number same as the action, but the bbl has a suffix, either -S or -L

5). Tavor is loved by the IDF I talked to friends there and they loved the M4 but the value over it with the TAVOR is really there. In the TAVOR you have quick-change bbls and L/R use which can be done at the Arms room level or even the user if needed.


Post Script: Shit has hit the fan hard, I grab my issue ALICE Rucksack that I wore fo many many years. It Ready to go. I grab my 1911 USMC Issue M45 built for the USMC by COLT Custom (the one I got was unissued so like new). Then suddenly on the wall I have 3 weapons: AR 10 Sniper Grade, Saint AR 15 and a TAVOR X 95. I look at the window from my perch on hilltop in the Texas Hill Country and I can see for 50 mi and its NOT a desert, I grab my X 95...

 

[Sam7sf]

Well IMO the blast/sound is barely noticeable VS the same length bbl of a M4. That said I came into the M 14 Army and that is LOUD!

Perhaps drifting from the OP question: I think it time the Army get a grip on war fighters. We now have the tech to give the boots on the battlefield a 2 gun world.

1) A bit of engineering and we take the best action ever designed (AR) and make it a bullpup. I have handled and shot the TAVPR and I am here to tell you I want one on the killing fields with me.

2). 1 gun, 2 barrels, SBR and LBR. While I thought the M 16 was a vast improvement vs the M 14 from a maneuverability view, I still felt the M 16 was to long for combat in the jungles or in any forested enviro.

3) SBR does not work well in the desert and in the cities. When you deploy you know where you are going.

4) Each weapon comes with 2 bbls, one short, one long and one is kept in the Arms room. Each bbl has a serial number same as the action, but the bbl has a suffix, either -S or -L

5). Tavor is loved by the IDF I talked to friends there and they loved the M4 but the value over it with the TAVOR is really there. In the TAVOR you have quick-change bbls and L/R use which can be done at the Arms room level or even the user if needed.


Post Script: Shit has hit the fan hard, I grab my issue ALICE Rucksack that I wore fo many many years. It Ready to go. I grab my 1911 USMC Issue M45 built for the USMC by COLT Custom (the one I got was unissued so like new). Then suddenly on the wall I have 3 weapons: AR 10 Sniper Grade, Saint AR 15 and a TAVOR X 95. I look at the window from my perch on hilltop in the Texas Hill Country and I can see for 50 mi and its NOT a desert, I grab my X 95...

I haven’t seen much activity from you. Glad to see you’re ok and still around.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Well not sure what it was, but, I could not get on at for years. I would get the notices of posts and try, 99% of it timed out. I tried every browser I had, which I think was about 5 or so. Bought 2 new computers on the years and no change used the wife's computer and no change. IF I got on I could not post a pic and my sessions to post and answer would almost always time out.

AND I had fiber to the house and 300Mb up and down.

So we are over here in Naples FL now and now I can log on now??? Why I could not get on before had no idea why and I am a retired Software Engineer and my wife is a retired Network Engineer. We both tried to make it happen but it would not. Never had an issue other than this site!

 

[Sasquatch]

Well not sure what it was, but, I could not get on at for years. I would get the notices of posts and try, 99% of it timed out. I tried every browser I had, which I think was about 5 or so. Bought 2 new computers on the years and no change used the wife's computer and no change. IF I got on I could not post a pic and my sessions to post and answer would almost always time out.

AND I had fiber to the house and 300Mb up and down.

So we are over here in Naples FL now and now I can log on now??? Why I could not get on before had no idea why and I am a retired Software Engineer and my wife is a retired Network Engineer. We both tried to make it happen but it would not. Never had an issue other than this site!

Are you retired to Naples, or just visiting? How's the area like?

 

[zackmars]

Well IMO the blast/sound is barely noticeable VS the same length bbl of a M4. That said I came into the M 14 Army and that is LOUD!

Perhaps drifting from the OP question: I think it time the Army get a grip on war fighters. We now have the tech to give the boots on the battlefield a 2 gun world.

1) A bit of engineering and we take the best action ever designed (AR) and make it a bullpup. I have handled and shot the TAVPR and I am here to tell you I want one on the killing fields with me.

2). 1 gun, 2 barrels, SBR and LBR. While I thought the M 16 was a vast improvement vs the M 14 from a maneuverability view, I still felt the M 16 was to long for combat in the jungles or in any forested enviro.

3) SBR does not work well in the desert and in the cities. When you deploy you know where you are going.

4) Each weapon comes with 2 bbls, one short, one long and one is kept in the Arms room. Each bbl has a serial number same as the action, but the bbl has a suffix, either -S or -L

5). Tavor is loved by the IDF I talked to friends there and they loved the M4 but the value over it with the TAVOR is really there. In the TAVOR you have quick-change bbls and L/R use which can be done at the Arms room level or even the user if needed.


Post Script: Shit has hit the fan hard, I grab my issue ALICE Rucksack that I wore fo many many years. It Ready to go. I grab my 1911 USMC Issue M45 built for the USMC by COLT Custom (the one I got was unissued so like new). Then suddenly on the wall I have 3 weapons: AR 10 Sniper Grade, Saint AR 15 and a TAVOR X 95. I look at the window from my perch on hilltop in the Texas Hill Country and I can see for 50 mi and its NOT a desert, I grab my X 95...

If you have QD barrels, you can run into issues with accuracy. It doesn't happen very often, but the systems typically used aren't as solid as a traditional setups.

like 4 MOA beretta ARX's and 10/22 takedowns. It's not particularly common, but it makes the added weight a harder sale.


Having 2 barrels will require 2 optics, and will require twice the amount of time to sight in. You also limit the mounts you can use. There are not that many truly good QD mounts out there. LaRue is good, as is scalarworks. Arms and ADM are... Not that impressive IMHO
.

You'd actually be loosing flexibility by having a bullpup instead of 2 complete uppers. And in environments with longer range shots, a properly set up AR will be more accurate, have a better trigger, and with the right choice in parts,will weigh quite a bit less.


What group size are you getting with your X95? The one i shot was not impressive in the accuracy department.

 

[Sasquatch]

The biggest selling point to me with a gun like the Tavor is that you get "full length" rifles in compact sizes. The balance point of the Tavor is nice too - I can one-hand balance a tavor against my shoulder a lot longer than I can even my AR pistol (11.5" barrel)

Those are the two good selling points to me.

The AR is superior otherwise, IMO. Better factory mil-spec trigger, way better after market triggers. The front sight is further from your eye if shooting irons which should make them inherently a bit more accurate. Like @zackmars said, a well setup AR can be very, very accurate. If you're talking of storing parts in an arms room and swapping for each mission - why settle with just short or long barrels - you can set up an upper for short, close in work using an optic meant for close up engagements. You can have a DMR upper with good glass to reach out to 500+ yards. You can have another upper setup with a suppressor, IR laser and light for night ops without making your short rifle too heavy. Cost to the tax payer? Meh, its the government they don't really care unless someone's getting bonus money for coming in under budget.

The next-gen rifles the Army has solicited for will also be using larger caliber ammunition, IIRC its a 6.5mm or 6.8mm (I forget which off hand) to gain more long range lethality which might also offset the need for a dedicated DMR upper vs a carbine version. I guess we'll see when they finally pick a new gun.

 

[Rhino]

If you have QD barrels, you can run into issues with accuracy. It doesn't happen very often, but the systems typically used aren't as solid as a traditional setups.

like 4 MOA beretta ARX's and 10/22 takedowns. It's not particularly common, but it makes the added weight a harder sale.


Having 2 barrels will require 2 optics, and will require twice the amount of time to sight in. You also limit the mounts you can use. There are not that many truly good QD mounts out there. LaRue is good, as is scalarworks. Arms and ADM are... Not that impressive IMHO
.

You'd actually be loosing flexibility by having a bullpup instead of 2 complete uppers. And in environments with longer range shots, a properly set up AR will be more accurate, have a better trigger, and with the right choice in parts,will weigh quite a bit less.


What group size are you getting with your X95? The one i shot was not impressive in the accuracy department.

Have you used the Cry Havoc? Any thoughts?

 

[benenglish]

If you have a particular bullpup in mind members may be able to help with your questions more.

QFT.

My Norinco 86S is unpleasantly gassy. The concussion seems a bit worse than other AK-style guns but I'm not sure; I'm not a good judge of that sort of thing.

 

[zackmars]

Have you used the Cry Havoc? Any thoughts?

I have not, sorry.

 

[TheDan]

Is there a perceived increase in recoil and/or concussed air?

nah

 

[Rhino]

I have not, sorry.

Ok. 'cause so far I like mine... and they are using them in the military.

 

[bigtex10mm]

Had I seen and handled the Tavor I would have bought it, but it was not available when I bought my KelTec RFB. It is a .308 bullpup that has a very interesting ejection design. There is a tube that runs along the right side of the barrel and when the gun cycles it drops the empty brass into that tube. Gravity does the rest. For a hand loader like me, this is fabulous. I just put a 5gal. bucked in front of me and all the empty cases fall into it.....no chasing brass. This is the true definition of an ambidextrous firearm. The gun has a full length 16" compensated barrel that does a great job of keeping the gasses out of your face. The action soaks up the recoil very nicely. It is accurate and reliable, which doesn't surprise me since I have many of Mr. Kellgren's unique weapons. I also have his 12ga. bull pup shotgun the KSG. KelTec also has a 5.56/223 bull pup called the RDB. Here are mine:
RFB 7.62/.308

KSG 12ga.