ColdDeadHands
Active Member
yes, people do say that occasionally. For anybody wanting to get more info on AR's I can recommend m4carbine.net, lots of good info there.
Bushmaster v. Colt v. DPMS v. R-15
- Thread starter Partychief67
- Start date
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ColdDeadHands
Active Member
Actually what I got by paying 2500 bucks for my Noveske is;
world class customer service
exceptional fit and finish
Superb 0.5" Moa accuracy
1 in 7" twist improved polygonal rifling
5.56 Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber
Mid length gas system
Extended feed ramps
1/2x28 TPI muzzle threads
Bead blasted finish
1" long gas block seat
Pinned Low Profile Gas Block
Medium Contour
Shot peened and MP tested bolt
Properly staked carrier key
Auto carrier
Mil-Spec receiver extension, staked
H Buffer
just look at the chart somebody posted at the first page, there are plenty of differences. yes, I paid a little premium for the noveske name but one can get a mil-spec Carbine for just $200 more then a Bushy so I don't think there is a reason not to get one that's built "right". Problem is people buy a cheapo AR then learn about the differences what makes a high quality AR & then start to bash others who made an informed buying decision the first time around because they themselves been to ignorant and believed the typical gun shop BS they've been told.
Then there are people who buy whatever because it won't get used anyways so way ay extra for quality.
ColdDeadHands
Active Member
It's not guaranteed but the owner John Noveske told me that he gets customer reports like that all the time @ 100 yards when using high quality heavy match grade ammo. I only have a aimpoint M4 on mine - not the best for long range distance accuracy. Tho I might replace that aimpoint with a scope one of these days to see what it will do with military ammo.
Partychief67
Member
I just looked at the Nokeske website...
Was looking at the "N4" series. The website has the N4, light carbine, basic priced at $1495. That's almost the exact same price I can get a Colt at Gander mountain or Cabellas.
What is special about the Noveske rifles? Do they manufacture their own lowers or something like that?
Was looking at the "N4" series. The website has the N4, light carbine, basic priced at $1495. That's almost the exact same price I can get a Colt at Gander mountain or Cabellas.
What is special about the Noveske rifles? Do they manufacture their own lowers or something like that?
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
I dragged out some AR-15's and compared my Colt H-Bar with the rest. I can't find much difference in any of them. I have confidence in any of the current AR's. I've also heard each one of them being praised and blasted all over the Internet. Frankly, it's all crap. One is as good as the other. If you always wanted a Colt, then get that. If your Buddies say that a Bushmaster is the ONLY way to fly........just knock yourself out and get a Bushy. We're comparing production rifles here....not hand tuned one-of-a-kind match rifles.
Barrel length? I like the 20" heavy barrels. I've heard the 16" shorties won't shoot well but I shot a master score with one at 200 yards. I'd say that's all crap, too. Buy what you want and don't worry about what "THEY" say. Better yet, buy both!
The barrel twist rate is another topic that is well abused on the 'Net. One post said that a 1:7 twist rate would work well for 90 grain bullets. Indeed it would. BUT those heavy bullet cartridges are usually single loaded as the cartridge overall length is too long for the magazine.
Remember that as the weight of the bullet gets heavier, it can't get larger in diameter so it needs to become LONGER. It's not the weight of the bullet that matters.....it's the length. As the bullets get heavier, they are longer.
1:7 is a good twist for heavy bullets but the barrel life and throat wear are a problem. They just don't last very long and they will not handle 55 grain or lighter bullets very well.
I have a Bushmaster with a 1:8 twist. 69 grain Match Kings work great with it and I've fired some of my best match scores with that combination. The WORST 600 yard match score I ever fired was with that 1:8 twist Bushy with 55 grain bullets. I could have used a sling shot just as effectively in that match!
It is said that the 1:9 is the best compromise barrel twist. My 1:9 barrels LOVE the 55 grain bullets and they will handle 62 and 69 grain slugs pretty well. That twist is my favorite especially considering the current ammo shortage where we don't have a great choice of bullet weights.
Summed up? Quality wise, pick what you want and argue with the guys that you own the best. It really doesn't matter. Your girlfriend may be the best lady in the world to you but somebody, somewhere was tired of putting up with her crap before you came on the scene.
Barrel twist? Be sure that you know how you will use the rifle and what bullet weight you prefer. 1:9 is a great compromise. 1:8 and 1:7 are more specialized twists and those choices will lock you into a particular bullet weight range.
Flash
Barrel length? I like the 20" heavy barrels. I've heard the 16" shorties won't shoot well but I shot a master score with one at 200 yards. I'd say that's all crap, too. Buy what you want and don't worry about what "THEY" say. Better yet, buy both!
The barrel twist rate is another topic that is well abused on the 'Net. One post said that a 1:7 twist rate would work well for 90 grain bullets. Indeed it would. BUT those heavy bullet cartridges are usually single loaded as the cartridge overall length is too long for the magazine.
Remember that as the weight of the bullet gets heavier, it can't get larger in diameter so it needs to become LONGER. It's not the weight of the bullet that matters.....it's the length. As the bullets get heavier, they are longer.
1:7 is a good twist for heavy bullets but the barrel life and throat wear are a problem. They just don't last very long and they will not handle 55 grain or lighter bullets very well.
I have a Bushmaster with a 1:8 twist. 69 grain Match Kings work great with it and I've fired some of my best match scores with that combination. The WORST 600 yard match score I ever fired was with that 1:8 twist Bushy with 55 grain bullets. I could have used a sling shot just as effectively in that match!
It is said that the 1:9 is the best compromise barrel twist. My 1:9 barrels LOVE the 55 grain bullets and they will handle 62 and 69 grain slugs pretty well. That twist is my favorite especially considering the current ammo shortage where we don't have a great choice of bullet weights.
Summed up? Quality wise, pick what you want and argue with the guys that you own the best. It really doesn't matter. Your girlfriend may be the best lady in the world to you but somebody, somewhere was tired of putting up with her crap before you came on the scene.
Barrel twist? Be sure that you know how you will use the rifle and what bullet weight you prefer. 1:9 is a great compromise. 1:8 and 1:7 are more specialized twists and those choices will lock you into a particular bullet weight range.
Flash
What makes anyone think that their $2,500.00 noveske or LMT is any better than the $1,000 colt or bushmaster?
Seriously . . . isn't your belief is based on mere supposition . . . not objective testing of your product.
Seriously . . . isn't your belief is based on mere supposition . . . not objective testing of your product.
Partychief67
Member
Thanks Roger4314 for a common sense reply...
Thanks for that info Roger4314. That matches my way of thinking. Just FYI I did end up buying the Colt at Gander Mountain before Christmas. It's got the front and center spot in my living room gun cabinet right now but being new to the AR I obviously can't make any objective comparisons to any other AR rifles. Anyhow, I'm just a poor boy and there are NO $3000 firearms of any type on the radar in my near future... LOL
My son however, has saved up enough to finally buy himself a Bushmaster. There is one he wants at Academy for around a grand. It has the standard rifle stock with a woodland camo pattern.
I guess a showdown out in the back of the pasture between my Colt and his Bushmaster is in the offing... I'll report back in asap with the results of our 300 yard fence post shoot.
Thanks for that info Roger4314. That matches my way of thinking. Just FYI I did end up buying the Colt at Gander Mountain before Christmas. It's got the front and center spot in my living room gun cabinet right now but being new to the AR I obviously can't make any objective comparisons to any other AR rifles. Anyhow, I'm just a poor boy and there are NO $3000 firearms of any type on the radar in my near future... LOL
My son however, has saved up enough to finally buy himself a Bushmaster. There is one he wants at Academy for around a grand. It has the standard rifle stock with a woodland camo pattern.
I guess a showdown out in the back of the pasture between my Colt and his Bushmaster is in the offing... I'll report back in asap with the results of our 300 yard fence post shoot.
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
Thanks for that info Roger4314. That matches my way of thinking. Just FYI I did end up buying the Colt at Gander Mountain before Christmas. It's got the front and center spot in my living room gun cabinet right now but being new to the AR I obviously can't make any objective comparisons to any other AR rifles.
Great! Don't let anyone smoke you out of it by making you think it's not a great rifle. Gun snobs are everywhere. Shoot that rifle until the barrel falls off and the finish is all scraped off. You'll be a heck of an AR shooter by then!
I've shot my Colt for about 5 years and it's a dandy with 1:9 twist. Shot a lot of 200 yard matches with it. Quality is very good and accuracy is really good. I use 55 grain bullets in it.
The rifle that I shoot most is an Olympic with a fake suppressor and a painted barrel. I bought the thing as a beater to use just for dry firing. Once I shot it, the results were great and the rifle shot like Gangbusters! Right now, it has several thousand rounds through it. Using that rifle and doing well in a match was like winning the Kentucky Derby on a $300 horse! The concept was irresistible!
Flash
Great! Don't let anyone smoke you out of it by making you think it's not a great rifle. Gun snobs are everywhere. Shoot that rifle until the barrel falls off and the finish is all scraped off. You'll be a heck of an AR shooter by then!
I've shot my Colt for about 5 years and it's a dandy with 1:9 twist. Shot a lot of 200 yard matches with it. Quality is very good and accuracy is really good. I use 55 grain bullets in it.
The rifle that I shoot most is an Olympic with a fake suppressor and a painted barrel. I bought the thing as a beater to use just for dry firing. Once I shot it, the results were great and the rifle shot like Gangbusters! Right now, it has several thousand rounds through it. Using that rifle and doing well in a match was like winning the Kentucky Derby on a $300 horse! The concept was irresistible!
Flash
ColdDeadHands
Active Member
I tested my guns plenty but don't have a cheap-ass bushy to compare it with - sorry. Think what you think...I don't give a rats ass. But if you seriously stack up a bushy against a noveske then you must be off your meds.
what about noveske vs colt
our colt is 20+ years old probably been through probably 10k rounds over the years (i shoot atleast 10 mags everytime i take it out) and still shoots wonderfully on what ever ammo i send through it.
ColdDeadHands
Active Member
I don't think there is anything wrong with colt AR's. The link to the chart on page 1 I think shows exactly how the different manufacturers stack up against each other. The military has contracts with Colt, LMT, FNH & maybe some others but surely not with Bushmaster, RRA or the like. The reason for that is they don't built their rifles durable enough.
I said it before and I say it again; buy what you want and hopefully you'll be happy with your purchase and it may serve your purposes well just don't run around saying my bushy is as good as a noveske. It's like comparing the performance of a mustang with a ferrari.
I said it before and I say it again; buy what you want and hopefully you'll be happy with your purchase and it may serve your purposes well just don't run around saying my bushy is as good as a noveske. It's like comparing the performance of a mustang with a ferrari.
ROGER4314
Been Called "Flash" Since I Was A Kid!
but don't have a cheap-ass bushy to compare it with
Geeze, not too opinionated, huh? I hate to be a voice of reason in a tornado of BS but I'll try.
I've owned 15 or more AR-15 rifles and have fired a lot more in actual competition at 200 and 600 yards. For a while, it was easy to compare one of each manufacturer. Of course, now everyone is making them and that would be impossible for an average guy like me to afford. Walmart and Target stores will surely jump on the AR-15 manufacturers list soon (Joke....snicker).
There's not a dimes worth of difference in production rifles except in trigger performance. Some triggers are better than others and for a production run rifle, that can be hit or miss. There are always slight variations in every production run part and sometimes they all fit together just right. Sometimes not.
If a rifle builder selectively hand fits each component by comparing their tolerance on the plus or minus side then assembles and tests the rifle thoroughly before sale, there may be some positive results to show for it. But that rifle is in a different class in quality and especially price. That rifle is a one of a kind hand fit specimen.
Those slight manufacturing variances will always be present regardless of the maker. If the parts are hand selected and fit together, a superior rifle can be produced. It doesn't mean that the custom fit parts are any better than than the production run parts, they are just hand selected to fit together.
Flash
Geeze, not too opinionated, huh? I hate to be a voice of reason in a tornado of BS but I'll try.
I've owned 15 or more AR-15 rifles and have fired a lot more in actual competition at 200 and 600 yards. For a while, it was easy to compare one of each manufacturer. Of course, now everyone is making them and that would be impossible for an average guy like me to afford. Walmart and Target stores will surely jump on the AR-15 manufacturers list soon (Joke....snicker).
There's not a dimes worth of difference in production rifles except in trigger performance. Some triggers are better than others and for a production run rifle, that can be hit or miss. There are always slight variations in every production run part and sometimes they all fit together just right. Sometimes not.
If a rifle builder selectively hand fits each component by comparing their tolerance on the plus or minus side then assembles and tests the rifle thoroughly before sale, there may be some positive results to show for it. But that rifle is in a different class in quality and especially price. That rifle is a one of a kind hand fit specimen.
Those slight manufacturing variances will always be present regardless of the maker. If the parts are hand selected and fit together, a superior rifle can be produced. It doesn't mean that the custom fit parts are any better than than the production run parts, they are just hand selected to fit together.
Flash
This is where the spreadsheet in the very beginning of the thread comes in handy. it tells you how each one meets/exceeds/fails to match the spec written out by the DoD. The N4 has one of the hardest barrels made (m249 barrel), they make all their own parts, and put it together in their own shop. its not mass produced on wore out machining equipment thats been retooled from one line to the next. their guarranty is awesome as well. not to mention those things shoot lights out and smooth as warm butter when you get them lubed properly. i love shooting them
Awesome and welcome to the club! next thing you know, youll be building one because you like this one so much
.Now that you are the new proud owner of an EBR, make sure to read the stickies at the top of this forum and learn how to make your new rifle love you
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