Chauvin guilty on all counts

[Axxe55]

Whether anyone likes Derek Chauvin of not, is irrelevant. He wasn't on trial for how popular, or unpopular he might be, and a trial isn't a popularity contest. A case suppose to be decided upon facts and evidence that are brought forth. Personally, I don't think I would like Chauvin and probably wouldn't want to be around him for very long, but that wouldn't be the reasons for finding him not guilty.

And if this case of him "restraining" someone back in 2017 was so significant, and so important, why is it now just becoming more public? Why didn't they either fire, or prosecute him 2017?

I think it's just adding more to the already media circus we are seeing and trying to convince people that a guilty verdict was the right choice.

 

[rotor]

Whether anyone likes Derek Chauvin of not, is irrelevant. He wasn't on trial for how popular, or unpopular he might be, and a trial isn't a popularity contest. A case suppose to be decided upon facts and evidence that are brought forth. Personally, I don't think I would like Chauvin and probably wouldn't want to be around him for very long, but that wouldn't be the reasons for finding him not guilty.

And if this case of him "restraining" someone back in 2017 was so significant, and so important, why is it now just becoming more public? Why didn't they either fire, or prosecute him 2017?

I think it's just adding more to the already media circus we are seeing and trying to convince people that a guilty verdict was the right choice.

Good questions and I certainly don't know the answer.
I tried to find a not guilty verdict in all of the defense lawyers presentation, especially the toxicology screening and the fact that Floyd was just nothing more than a piece of ##it.
None of that made Chauvin innocent in my mind. Three people on a handcuffed prone man with a loss of pulse and nothing done to try to resuscitate him. He had a pulse when he went down then he didn't have a pulse. And nothing was done.
Do you believe Floyd would be dead if he was restrained in cuffs and was not placed prone with 3 men on him? That is the real question. I don't know the answer.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Perhaps. Do you think their policy is to not do anything when the person under arrest no longer has a pulse?

That would become a civil issue not criminal.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[rotor]

That would become a civil issue not criminal.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

Settled for $27 million.

 

[Axxe55]

Good questions and I certainly don't know the answer.
I tried to find a not guilty verdict in all of the defense lawyers presentation, especially the toxicology screening and the fact that Floyd was just nothing more than a piece of ##it.
None of that made Chauvin innocent in my mind. Three people on a handcuffed prone man with a loss of pulse and nothing done to try to resuscitate him. He had a pulse when he went down then he didn't have a pulse. And nothing was done.
Do you believe Floyd would be dead if he was restrained in cuffs and was not placed prone with 3 men on him? That is the real question. I don't know the answer.

I would never say Chauvin was innocent, but in court of law, all that matters is he guilty, or not guilty of the charges being tried before the court. I would never voted guilty on the charges of murder based on the evidence and facts I have seen so far.

And exactly what you describe I find troubling as well, but if the officers were acting in accordance to departmental policy on the use of the restraint method, and the method is flawed, that IMO is fault of the department, not the officer.

 

[rotor]

I would never say Chauvin was innocent, but in court of law, all that matters is he guilty, or not guilty of the charges being tried before the court. I would never voted guilty on the charges of murder based on the evidence and facts I have seen so far.

And exactly what you describe I find troubling as well, but if the officers were acting in accordance to departmental policy on the use of the restraint method, and the method is flawed, that IMO is fault of the department, not the officer.

Chauvin continued to hold Floyd down for almost 3 minutes after no pulse could be found and nobody tried to resuscitate him. Could have had no pulse for longer. How long do you restrain a dead man? Like I said I tried everything I could to find a reason Chauvin was innocent but I couldn’t find one. You can’t use department policy as an excuse when you know the guy has just died and you don’t do anything to resuscitate him.

 

[Axxe55]

Chauvin continued to hold Floyd down for almost 3 minutes after no pulse could be found and nobody tried to resuscitate him. Could have had no pulse for longer. How long do you restrain a dead man? Like I said I tried everything I could to find a reason Chauvin was innocent but I couldn’t find one. You can’t use department policy as an excuse when you know the guy has just died and you don’t do anything to resuscitate him.

In a way I agree, but a point was brought up, there was an angry crowd, and had they announced that Floyd was dead, and considering the events at the time, who knows if the crowd would have become a lunch mob.

I don't know, but it is possible. It has happened before.

And factoring in the ME autopsy report, there was no significant damage to the neck or the throat. That says more than anything of how much pressure Chauvin was exerting on Floyd's neck or throat.

 

[rotor]

In a way I agree, but a point was brought up, there was an angry crowd, and had they announced that Floyd was dead, and considering the events at the time, who knows if the crowd would have become a lunch mob.

I don't know, but it is possible. It has happened before.

And factoring in the ME autopsy report, there was no significant damage to the neck or the throat. That says more than anything of how much pressure Chauvin was exerting on Floyd's neck or throat.

I am not claiming Chauvin choked him. But Floyd had no pulse for 3 minutes and no cpr was done. They knew he was dead and could have started cpr. Why he died I don’t know. Maybe Fentanyl. But cops had complete control and did nothing to resuscitate Floyd.

 

[Younggun]

Do you believe Floyd would be dead if he was restrained in cuffs and was not placed prone with 3 men on him? That is the real question. I don't know the answer.

This is exactly the problem I have. Our court system has a burden of proof for guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt. The statement above seems to be exactly that. You seem to have reasonable doubt that it was Chauvin who caused Floyd to die.

I understand the questions regarding his actions on certain aspects, and don’t know the answer to those questions. I have reasonable doubts as to his motives, so I couldn’t possible believe he should be found guilty of murder. And since I have reasonable doubt that Chauvin is the reason for his death, I don’t believe manslaughter is correct either. It’s possible, and I’d say within reach. But I’m not personally convinced. I would likely not be arguing with people in the internet over a manslaughter conviction. But I believe this is a perversion if the system, driven more by how people feel about the situation than the facts of the situation.

Imagine getting stopped for reckless driving and being charged and convicted for a DWI, and people just said “serves him right, he was driving stupid”. Not a great analogy I admit, but best I can do at 1am, lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dooladawg]

The Biden administration and congressional Democrats are using the Chauvin murder conviction as the premise for claiming that policing in America must be transformed — by legislation and Justice Department monitoring — because it smacks of white racism against black people. This transformation, we are told, must begin with such steps as an official government assumption that racism explains why blacks are arrested at a disproportionately high rate (compared with their share of the overall population), and a categorical ban on choke holds. And yet these are the facts: George Floyd was arrested not based on a police assumption but in response to a credible citizen complaint that he committed a crime, coupled with obvious evidence that he was high on drugs while operating a car. The police never choked him. And there is no evidence that racism motivated the police to mistreat him.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I am not claiming Chauvin choked him. But Floyd had no pulse for 3 minutes and no cpr was done. They knew he was dead and could have started cpr. Why he died I don’t know. Maybe Fentanyl. But cops had complete control and did nothing to resuscitate Floyd.

Not providing medical care to a dead man cannot kill him. Neither is it criminal.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[Texas45]

Minneapolis and the entire trial

Man was it a good show.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

And for another opinion: If gf had not resisted he'd still be kicking.

 

[rotor]

Not providing medical care to a dead man cannot kill him. Neither is it criminal.

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

He was alive when you arrested him and he was dead during your detainment (restraint). It is not criminal? Tell that to the jury that thought otherwise.

 

[cycleguy2300]

He was alive when you arrested him and he was dead during your detainment (restraint). It is not criminal? Tell that to the jury that thought otherwise.

What would you expect to happen when you OD'd on 4x the lethal dose of a drug that stops respiration? To use the cyanide pill that Rhino brought up earlier... had Floyd fought been knelt on then bit a cyanide pill, would you still think Chauvin guilty? If not how does Floyd taking a lethal dose of any other drug make Chauvin guilty?

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[rotor]

What would you expect to happen when you OD'd on 4x the lethal dose of a drug that stops respiration? To use the cyanide pill that Rhino brought up earlier... had Floyd fought been knelt on then bit a cyanide pill, would you still think Chauvin guilty? If not how does Floyd taking a lethal dose of any other drug make Chauvin guilty?

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

Jury didn't buy your argument did it? You don't need to convince me.

 

[Younggun]

Jury also found him guilty of both premeditated murder and accidentally killing the same person. Seems like there are some issues here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cycleguy2300]

Jury didn't buy your argument did it? You don't need to convince me.

Iirc, the jury wasnt allowed to hear about the amount of drugs in Floyd's system...

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[rotor]

Iirc, the jury wasnt allowed to hear about the amount of drugs in Floyd's system...

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

But they did know he had fentanyl and amphetamines in his system, an "expert witness" testified that they were not the cause of death and they still found Chauvin guilty.
You think Chauvin is not guilty, I think Chauvin contributed to Floyd's death or at least did nothing to try to revive him. Not much more that we can debate as I would not have found him guilty on all 3 charges. I think Floyd would not have died if Chauvin had not had him handcuffed and prone with 3 people on him for 9 minutes. The fact that it might have been department policy is irrelevant. The video is hard to beat here. Alive, yelling, non responsive, dead, no sign that Chauvin cared or did anything to help Floyd.
Let's agree to leave it here and wait for the appeals.

 

[innominate]

This thread reminds me of the saying statistics never lie.