Chauvin guilty on all counts

Dougw1515

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The "got'cha" for me is... Once Floyd was arrested his well being became the responsibility of the arresting officer - Chauvin, as I understand it. So yeah, manslaughter would fit. It was NOT murder.
 

Axxe55

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He probably would survive, in jail for a long time - as in for his entire sentence. Plenty of inmates would like to off him but there would be plenty of others, possibly white supremacists, who would protect him and many guards likley would do so as well. Thhen again - there is always Bubba who might take a fancy to Chauvin's arse and protect his lover boy. Other than that, he likely will be kept in an isolated population. Of course, he may off himself before he is even sentenced; I doubt that because he will file appeals before that but who knows.
You say you were LE. What’s the legal definition of murder? What is the legal standard for a charge of murder in Michigan?


Then tell me how you think it fits, beyond a reasonable doubt.


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I don't think anyone is saying Floyd deserved to be murdered, regardless of what crimes he committed. But based on what has come to light, IMO, Chauvin didn't murder Floyd.

And what amount of responsibility does Floyd account for in his own death? He did take almost four times a lethal dose of drugs, that were more likely a cause of his death than anything else.
 

Younggun

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Some are doing that. Others, like me aren't, and your conflation isn't helpful.
You’re doing that. Your making Chauvin the avatar of everything you don’t like about the current legal system or law enforcement. You’re refusing to allow Floyd’s choices to bear any weight in the responsibility for his own death because that would mean a Chauvin isn’t the animal you are trying to make him out to be.

The problem with this is that if this is TRUE, and I'm not disputing that, then Floyd was legitimately gasping for breath and struggling to breath,
Not necessarily.


and that means Chauvin SHOULD have been more circumspect and changed his positioning...
He also said his mother just died (lie) and that he was claustrophobic. People say all kinds of things hoping not to be arrested. He started screaming he couldn’t breath before officers did anything that would effect his breathing and only when they attempted to arrest him. Going easy on everyone that starts hollering out random reasons they should be let go will mean a lot of criminals running the streets.

The man was saying he couldn't breath, regardless of the cause, that should have prompted a response, or at a minimum a change of approach. Still manslaughter in my book.

The prosecutions witness testified under cross examination that it was common for people to make up lies in order to get an opportunity to escape, including claiming health issues. This isn’t some fantasy world where crack heads, drug dealers, and gang members tell the truth all the time.


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Axxe55

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Younggun

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I don't think anyone is saying Floyd deserved to be murdered, regardless of what crimes he committed. But based on what has come to light, IMO, Chauvin didn't murder Floyd.

And what amount of responsibility does Floyd account for in his own death? He did take almost four times a lethal dose of drugs, that were more likely a cause of his death than anything else.
I was more interested in Glenn’s thoughts, as he has stated many times that he is LE and I haven’t seen anything in the evidence presented to make me believe that a charge of murder (intent to kill) fits here.

Somehow, we happen to be mostly in agreement on this particular subject.


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Axxe55

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I was more interested in Glenn’s thoughts, as he has stated many times that he is LE and I haven’t seen anything in the evidence presented to make me believe that a charge of murder (intent to kill) fits here.

Somehow, we happen to be mostly in agreement on this particular subject.


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Honestly, I can't see how they got any murder charge to stick. Murder requires pre-meditation, at some point to kill another person.
 

Glenn B

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I was more interested in Glenn’s thoughts, as he has stated many times that he is LE and I haven’t seen anything in the evidence presented to make me believe that a charge of murder (intent to kill) fits here.

Somehow, we happen to be mostly in agreement on this particular subject.


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Intent was there, in my opinion, in that when he learned a pulse could not be found he did not immediately check it himself or have the other officer check again and then try to resuscitate Floyd. In fact, he did nothing to change the situation that he was, at least in great part, causing. Instead, he stayed in place. That shows intent plainly and without refute in my estimation.

It does not matter what Floyd said about all the BS not being able to breathe (he would not have been able to talk), or being claustrophobic and thus could not get in the police car (after he was just in another car with a problem). What was important, toward intent, is that another trained police officer (who almost undoubtedly was trained to check for a a pulse) is the one who said he could not find the pulse. That was not BS coming from Floyd - that was a brother officer telling Chauvin, in sum & substance, that there was very likely a medical emergency that had stopped Floyd's heartbeat. Chauvin disregarded that and continued to apply pressure to Floyd's neck and quite likely his carotid artery.

How is it that you do not see that as intent to kill him. Was Chauvin just trying to continue to restrain a man whose heart had stopped instead of trying to kill him; if so why instead iof assisting him medically? Maybe he thought it was okay to continue kneeling because he thought Floyd was alreasy dead - is that it? Think of that but - why would he continue to restrain him if his heart had apparently stopped? The only thing I can think of is to assure Floyd would die and be beyond ressucitation. Do you somehow think Chauvin thought the good health fairy was going to make things better and that he simply restraining Floyd and was not making things worse by continuing what he was doing? Take whatever emotion you have relative to this case and throw it out the window and look at it objectively.
 

Glenn B

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Honestly, I can't see how they got any murder charge to stick. Murder requires pre-meditation, at some point to kill another person.
Premeditation does not have to come weeks, days or even hours before someone commits a murder. Once the statement about being unable to find a pulse was uttered by another officer - Chauvin made the decision to remain in place. Why was that? See my above post, in my opinion, it was only so that he would assure Floyd's death because there were many other options he could have taken at that point and he chose not to take any of them but chose to continue with exactly what he had been doing once notified of the very possible and probable life threatening situation facing Floyd. He then exacerbated it all by continuing to kneel on Floyd's neck after the lack of a pulse was noted (and I have added this: and Floyd still possibly could have been resuscitated just like many others whose hearts have stopped but who have been brought back with CPR). Really, what else do you think the outcome would have been of him continuing to kneel on Floyd's neck after being told a pulse could not be found? What do you think Chauvin thought would be the outcome - he was not a moron, not unintelligent - he was a well trained officer who was restraining a man with an apparent unauthorized method, a man who was told there was no pulse by another officer, and he CHOSE to continue what he was doing - applying what evidently was deadly force. That is wherein lies premeditation - his decision not to check for a pulse again, not to try to ressucitate Floyd but to continue what he as a well trained officer should have known was deadly force considering the entire situation.
 
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Glenn B

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You say you were LE. What’s the legal definition of murder? What is the legal standard for a charge of murder in Michigan?


Then tell me how you think it fits, beyond a reasonable doubt.


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Murder 1st: (a) Murder perpetrated by means of poison, lying in wait, or any other willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing. (Source.)

I already have explained why I believe it premeditated. I think I how I believe it beyond a reasonable doubt should be easily deciphered from what I already wrote. So, now I've told you. What say you without emotion, without such implied challenges as to my veracity about my career as "You say you were in LE." and with you looking at it from a purely objective point of view.

img005.jpg
 
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avvidclif

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Murder 1st: (a) Murder perpetrated by means of poison, lying in wait, or any other willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing. (Source.)

I already have explained why I believe it premeditated. I think I how I believe it beyond a reasonable doubt should be easily deciphered from what I already wrote. So, now I've told you. What say you without emotion, without such implied challenges as to my veracity about my career as "You say you were in LE." and with you looking at it from a purely objective point of view.
Your missing the "and" it was not premeditated

Premeditated = Planned
 

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