ARJ Defense ad

Check status of buyer's LTC?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Whistler

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 28, 2014
    3,383
    96
    Northeast Texas
    To each his own. I wont criticize someone's choice to provide a private citizen, a complete stranger more personal information than required by law. Most especially when no such due diligence is mandated. Likewise I expect they will also respect my choice not to do business under those conditions and/or with an individual possessing that mind set.

    I prefer to purchase in that manner due to a strongly held belief it is no one's damn business what personal possessions I buy or sell. I will advise in a free society imposing unnecessary conditions may limit the market.

    Freedom can be messy.
    Gun Zone Deals
     

    TX OMFS

    TGT Addict
    Industry Partner
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 3, 2014
    4,755
    96
    San Antonio
    Not many FFLs are open during my offtime, I've been working at the Dallas terminal from 9:00am to 8:00pm so I was hoping to meet and buy at a local PD parking lot or coffee shop, whatever the seller is comfortable with.
    If you go through an FFL just have the seller transfer to the FFL. The FFL will put it on their books & can hold it until you can get there. I believe the gun is transferred to the FFL any time you use an FFL, no matter what, but in this case instead of the FFL holding it for 2 minutes they can hold it 2 weeks.

    And, I wouldn't do this deal. Seller is silly.
     
    Last edited:

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,932
    96
    Spring
    If you go through an FFL just have the seller transfer to the FFL. The FFL will put it on their books & can hold it until you can get there.
    I recall an FFL from ~25 years ago. When they did transfers, the paperwork they used made it clear that once the firearm was transferred to them, they owned it. Period. They could charge anything they wanted to sell it to anyone they wanted.

    With that kind of leverage, they could get away with all sorts of asshattery. I don't imagine they could get away with much if both buyer and seller were standing in front of them. However, I once overheard them dealing with a woman who knew nothing of guns but was trying to get a family heirloom transferred in from out of state. The FFL unblinkingly quoted her a price of "$350.00, minimum, depending on how much work we have to do."

    Having a third party hold a firearm to facilitate a non-face-to-face transfer introduces a new player that must be trusted by all parties. I acknowledge that for any halfway knowledgeable buyers and sellers, no FFL could get away with being that much of a jerk these days.

    Still, to me, a basic principle always holds: the fewer people involved the better.
     

    TexasRedneck

    1911 Nut
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Jan 23, 2009
    14,560
    96
    New Braunfels, TX
    Obviously I will not be buying from some of the commenters on this post. Unfortunately for you as I spend big.

    Be sure and mark my name down as "don't buy from". The very fact that you don't understand that a BOS has no legal standing tells me you haven't done due diligence - in fact, the ATF has used them to prosecute folks.

    But.....you go ahead and do you, because you're the expert. Oh - and Mister "Spend Big", there are some of us here that spend a fair amount ourselves.....
     

    Charlie

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 19, 2008
    65,572
    96
    'Top of the hill, Kerr County!
    A bill of sale has absolutely no legal standing and going through a Notary to verify identities doesn't have anything to do with whether a person can legally own a handgun. The seller is not liable unless the seller knows the buyer is not a Texas resident, or otherwise forbidden by law to own a firearm. If a seller wants all that info, that's OK, but IT IS NOT REQUIRED by law.
     

    Southpaw

    Forum BSer
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Mar 30, 2009
    17,862
    96
    Guadalupe Co.
    This is an amusing thread. It is amazing how many folks here have gotten their panties in a wad up their wazoos over going through an FFL or doing a bill of sale or whatever. So what if the seller wanted to go through an FFL and the buyer did not want to do so? Sale over at the buyer's discretion by not wanting to go through an FFL or sale continues at his discretion by going through an FFL. Big deal - really! Same goes for a bill of sale - if you don't want to do a bill of sale but the buyer or seller does depending on which you are - so what? If you don't want it - then don't sell it or don't buy it. Seller's gun to sell as he pleases, buyer's money to spend as he pleases. Really - what in Hades is the big deal? Move on, get a life, buy or sell a gun to someone else as you please.

    Because going to an FFL when there is no requirement to only encourages proponents of universal background checks. You may not see the harm in doing it for a sale here and a sale there, but you fail to take into account that your actions probably influence others too.
    Newbies and ignorant gun owners start seeing ads requiring FFL to transfer a private sale and they themselves start to do the same. Next thing you know it just becomes the way it's done. It's just what anti gunners would love to see as it will make their job easier pushing for something that 60%+ of our community already does.
     

    Southpaw

    Forum BSer
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Mar 30, 2009
    17,862
    96
    Guadalupe Co.
    One can be prosecuted for selling to someone not legally able to own a gun.

    You are more likely to prosecuted for selling a firearm w/o a license than unknowingly selling a firearm to a prohibited person.

    The regulations are very subjective to how an agency and/or administration what's to interpret it. At such a time, a BOS becomes evidence in your prosecution.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

    Federal law requires that persons who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms be licensed by ATF. The penalty for dealing in firearms without a license is up to five years in prison, a fine up to $250,000, or both.

    A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the internet .

    Determining whether you are “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms requires looking at the specific facts and circumstances of your activities.

    As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.

    Courts have identified several factors relevant to determining on which side of that line your activities may fall, including: whether you represent yourself as a dealer in firearms; whether you are repetitively buying and selling firearms; the circumstances under which you are selling firearms; and whether you are looking to make a profit. Note that while quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold, or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors were also present.
     
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 17, 2010
    7,576
    96
    Austin
    Which part bothers you?

    I don't know what the big stink is here. I really don't care what you all think about BOS, I buy on my own basis and if I don't like the deal I don't buy. My business only and no reason to be called a dick. The BOS I use comes from Texasguntrader and has the buyer, me, certify the usual "I am qualified" stuff and has my and sellers DL or LTC info. If there is ever a question about selling or buying to a person legally allowed to buy/sell I can show due diligence. That's it. One can be prosecuted for selling to someone not legally able to own a gun. I personally don't sell guns, I buy but I would not buy from someone that didn't want to know that I am a legal buyer. So if that makes me a dick so be it. Obviously I will not be buying from some of the commenters on this post. Unfortunately for you as I spend big.

    You either have no idea what you're talking about, or you have come here to troll the forum

    Bills of Sale don't do what you think. Stop living in fear.
     

    rotor

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 1, 2015
    4,239
    96
    Texas
    You either have no idea what you're talking about, or you have come here to troll the forum

    Bills of Sale don't do what you think. Stop living in fear.
    Not living in fear, when I spend my money I set the terms of how I spend it, not trolling the forum but sure learning what bugs a lot of people here. Next argument will probably be "does the gun have a safety?"
    I have no interest in fighting with people about what I do. I don't care if you don't want something or do want something and the whole argument is stupid. I don't know why this topic even gets people riled up. Please, buy and sell as you wish and leave me in peace to buy and sell as I wish. Calling me names because I use a BOS is just uncalled for. I have not and will not call you anything negative unless your name is Michael Bloomberg. Have a good day forum members.
     
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 17, 2010
    7,576
    96
    Austin
    Not living in fear, when I spend my money I set the terms of how I spend it, not trolling the forum but sure learning what bugs a lot of people here. Next argument will probably be "does the gun have a safety?"
    I have no interest in fighting with people about what I do. I don't care if you don't want something or do want something and the whole argument is stupid. I don't know why this topic even gets people riled up. Please, buy and sell as you wish and leave me in peace to buy and sell as I wish. Calling me names because I use a BOS is just uncalled for. I have not and will not call you anything negative unless your name is Michael Bloomberg. Have a good day forum members.

    We're trying to help you out. Your "facts" are incorrect and are leading you to make bad decisions.
     

    Whistler

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 28, 2014
    3,383
    96
    Northeast Texas
    Not living in fear, when I spend my money I set the terms of how I spend it, not trolling the forum but sure learning what bugs a lot of people here. Next argument will probably be "does the gun have a safety?"
    I have no interest in fighting with people about what I do. I don't care if you don't want something or do want something and the whole argument is stupid. I don't know why this topic even gets people riled up. Please, buy and sell as you wish and leave me in peace to buy and sell as I wish. Calling me names because I use a BOS is just uncalled for. I have not and will not call you anything negative unless your name is Michael Bloomberg. Have a good day forum members.
    I saw no coercion for you to post what you know (or should know having joined in 2015) is a contentious position in this thread. Stop whining, no one is "picking on you", you chose to poke the bear knowing the certain result.

    I won't call you a troll however that is the action a troll might take.
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,747
    96
    Texas
    I don't know why this topic even gets people riled up.

    Because a BOS does not do what folks who want BOS think it does. So we are here to trying to help folks out with why you should not do a BOS. If "protecting yourself" is what you want, then the only way to accomplish is a FFL facilitated sale. So either "cash/gun/handshake" or FFL. Everything else is a waste of time.
     
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 17, 2010
    7,576
    96
    Austin
    Truce gentlemen. I will not post comments about BOS in the future.

    Why doesn't it bother you that you might be living in delusion? I really don't get it. When people show me I'm wrong about things I feel happy and grateful because it makers me a stronger person.
     

    rotor

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 1, 2015
    4,239
    96
    Texas
    Why doesn't it bother you that you might be living in delusion? I really don't get it. When people show me I'm wrong about things I feel happy and grateful because it makers me a stronger person.
    Why do you keep pushing the point? I said truce. That means we will not argue the point anymore. People can agree to disagree and not leave calling each other names. I respect your opinion.
     
    Top Bottom