CHL for Security Officers

[BigBoss0311]

So as a certified PPO I was wondering why the handgun qualification is not waived for Commissioned Officers and PPO's. I know it is waived for military but that makes no sense to me (I am a vet btw) as a good chunk of the military doesn't ever use or qualify with a pistol. However, all DPS certified Commissioned Officers must pass a handgun proficiency test in addition to the hours of class time we must attend. And much of the instruction is referring to current Texas Penal Code regarding firearms and rules governing security guards and when a weapon can be used. So am I alone in thinking that there should be a discount for a CHL in addition to having the firearms qualification waived with current Level 3 or 4 guard card?





As an aside:
I will go ahead and head off any flak from my comment about the military qual waiver. I personally feel that there should be NO qualification or certification needed for a CHL as long as you are legally able to own a firearm.

 

[Bithabus]

So as a certified PPO I was wondering why the handgun qualification is not waived for Commissioned Officers and PPO's. I know it is waived for military but that makes no sense to me (I am a vet btw) as a good chunk of the military doesn't ever use or qualify with a pistol. However, all DPS certified Commissioned Officers must pass a handgun proficiency test in addition to the hours of class time we must attend. And much of the instruction is referring to current Texas Penal Code regarding firearms and rules governing security guards and when a weapon can be used. So am I alone in thinking that there should be a discount for a CHL in addition to having the firearms qualification waived with current Level 3 or 4 guard card?

It is only waived for military people who have qualified with a handgun within 5 years

 

[txinvestigator]

I am both a level 3 instructor and CHL instructor as well as a PSB qualified manager. The CHL course is different enough in content that guards and PPOs should not be exempt from the CHL course.

If you are objecting to the shooting portion of the CHL, why would you object to shooting?

 

[BigBoss0311]

Not saying exempt from the course, just be offered the CHL course at a discount as long as guard card is current. And as far as the shooting, if I have already shown proficiency with the firearm type listed on my guard card, why should I have to shoot again? Basically, I wish that for those with Level 3 or 4 guard card, we would still have to take the CHL course, but the price would be discounted, and no firearms qual.


And I never object to shooting on my own time, but when DPS has already stated I am proficient with a firearm, I shouldn't have to qual again for them. Especially since one of the DPS approved ways to qualify is to use the CHL course of fire! To me it's like taking a driving test for a car, and then having to take one for a truck.


And this goes both ways as well. If one has an active CHL, then I feel that the pistol qual should be waived when going through the Level 3 course. As long as they are using the same type of pistol at work that they qualified with for the CHL. Example being if you qual'd with a SA for CHL, then you can use SA and NSA for work. It is up to your place of work and the security guard to ensure proficiency with weapons and gear issued to them.

 

[txinvestigator]

Not saying exempt from the course, just be offered the CHL course at a discount as long as guard card is current. And as far as the shooting, if I have already shown proficiency with the firearm type listed on my guard card, why should I have to shoot again? Basically, I wish that for those with Level 3 or 4 guard card, we would still have to take the CHL course, but the price would be discounted, and no firearms qual.

DPS has not control over the fee charged for the course. I suppose, just like they do military and LE, they could wave the shooting proficiency with evidence of similar proficiency, but why would you want to just sit a half hour and not shoot?

Contact your legislator or the head of DPS Licensing and Regulatory Division and make your suggestion. I would support it.

 

[Bithabus]

Not saying exempt from the course, just be offered the CHL course at a discount as long as guard card is current. And as far as the shooting, if I have already shown proficiency with the firearm type listed on my guard card, why should I have to shoot again? Basically, I wish that for those with Level 3 or 4 guard card, we would still have to take the CHL course, but the price would be discounted, and no firearms qual.


And I never object to shooting on my own time, but when DPS has already stated I am proficient with a firearm, I shouldn't have to qual again for them. Especially since one of the DPS approved ways to qualify is to use the CHL course of fire! To me it's like taking a driving test for a car, and then having to take one for a truck.


And this goes both ways as well. If one has an active CHL, then I feel that the pistol qual should be waived when going through the Level 3 course. As long as they are using the same type of pistol at work that they qualified with for the CHL. Example being if you qual'd with a SA for CHL, then you can use SA and NSA for work. It is up to your place of work and the security guard to ensure proficiency with weapons and gear issued to them.

You still have to sit there all day. I don't get why you would want to sit on the bench while everyone else is shooting.

The military discount is a courtesy. I see no reason why it should extend to security guards.

 

[TXDARKHORSE361]

Just took my CHL class and though I could have given documentation to show I have qualified in the military with a handgun the actual shooting was the highlight of the class. It's too easy to get a passing score to be worried about and I saw it as a good chance to get an additional 50 rounds of practice in.

 

[The_Sheepdog]

I'm currently working as a security officer myself and I need to find someone to do my concealed carry locally but I do agree that it's kinda ridiculous to go thru more background checks and quals. I've been a security officer for almost ten years and I'm now licensed by tcleose after graduating academy last December.

 

[shortround]

You are no different than Joe Q. Public.

CHL is for the (lesser) People. Comply with the same requirements as dictated for the People ... don't expect special treatment based on your other certifications.

Frankly, I oppose CHL and licensing, as it is but another infringement on the 2nd Amendment (and a back-door form of registration).

Think of it this way: When I asked my tax accountant if he would be put out of business if we eliminated the Federal Income Tax, he said he would welcome it, because there is plenty of other accounting work he would do if not for taxes.

 

[The_Sheepdog]

I see your point

 

[Bithabus]

I'm currently working as a security officer myself and I need to find someone to do my concealed carry locally but I do agree that it's kinda ridiculous to go thru more background checks and quals. I've been a security officer for almost ten years and I'm now licensed by tcleose after graduating academy last December.

If you get a cop job you wont have to take the chl class at all

 

[BigBoss0311]

i know im no different, that is covered extensively in every level 1-4. but they waive qual and give discount for military/fomer miltary. why? what training do they have with a pistol that others don't? i would venture the majority of service personnel never fire a pistol or qual with one they are issued.

@shortround- i already explained my views on chl as well. we are in agreement there. but there should be reciprocity not only between the states for chl, but in DPS as well for DPS certified training. If I have already taken the CHL qual as required by DPS, wouldn't it be convenient to take my certificate of proficiency to the instructor so I can skip that portion? as i stated, this is not just about skipping qual for chl, but for guard card as well.

as for why i don't want to qual? i just don't want to. i can eat luch during that time, poop, nap, play video games, make a phone call, or we can push through to the next period of instruction. plus i hate shooting on a range in close proximity with people i dont know. personal feeling i know but, 'Merica!

like the majority of people i know, i hate classroom instruction. sitting for hours on end with death by powerpoint and having someone talk at me sucks. if i have to go through that to carry concealed i will. but i want to push through. skip the breaks, and go. if i can get out or there a half hour to an hour early because we have covered all required content and skipped the 10-15 min breaks instructors throw in then lets do it. happens all the time.

 

[txinvestigator]

i know im no different, that is covered extensively in every level 1-4. but they waive qual and give discount for military/fomer miltary. why? what training do they have with a pistol that others don't? i would venture the majority of service personnel never fire a pistol or qual with one they are issued.

A military person who has never fired a pistol does not get a pass on the shooting qual. If you cannot understand why the receive a discount then you are seriously selfish.

@shortround- i already explained my views on chl as well. we are in agreement there. but there should be reciprocity not only between the states for chl, but in DPS as well for DPS certified training.

It does not work that way. As an instructor, I do not care what training you have or if you decide to skip the shooting. If you do not shoot I just X out the firearms part of the CHL 100. It is not up to instructors to determine if you meetban exemption.

as for why i don't want to qual? i just don't want to. i can eat luch during that time, poop, nap, play video games, make a phone call, or we can push through to the next period of instruction. plus i hate shooting on a range in close proximity with people i dont know. personal feeling i know but, 'Merica!

like the majority of people i know, i hate classroom instruction. sitting for hours on end with death by powerpoint and having someone talk at me sucks. if i have to go through that to carry concealed i will. but i want to push through. skip the breaks, and go. if i can get out or there a half hour to an hour early because we have covered all required content and skipped the 10-15 min breaks instructors throw in then lets do it. happens all the time.

Wow. What a whiner.

 

[Koinonia]

Please remember, unless you have some sort of Bodyguard License, it is illegal to carry concealed while in uniform, regardless if you are a Level 3 or not. Stupid law, but it is law.

 

[Bithabus]

i know im no different, that is covered extensively in every level 1-4. but they waive qual and give discount for military/fomer miltary. why? what training do they have with a pistol that others don't?

Why don't you read the responses? I told you in the first response that military can only skip the shooting portion if they have qualified with a handgun within 5 years.

as for why i don't want to qual? i just don't want to. i can eat luch during that time, poop, nap, play video games, make a phone call, or we can push through to the next period of instruction. plus i hate shooting on a range in close proximity with people i dont know. personal feeling i know but, 'Merica!

Wow.

like the majority of people i know, i hate classroom instruction. sitting for hours on end with death by powerpoint and having someone talk at me sucks. if i have to go through that to carry concealed i will. but i want to push through. skip the breaks, and go. if i can get out or there a half hour to an hour early because we have covered all required content and skipped the 10-15 min breaks instructors throw in then lets do it. happens all the time.

Well that's not going to happen. Carry on an AZ license if you don't want to take the class.

 

[jordanmills]

Please remember, unless you have some sort of Bodyguard License, it is illegal to carry concealed while in uniform, regardless if you are a Level 3 or not. Stupid law, but it is law.

Where is that? I thought that was the case, but I couldn't find it when I looked yesterday.

 

[V-Tach]

CHL instructors have to re-qualify every two years with revolver and semi...I haven't seen any of them complaining about it.....jmho..

 

[Bithabus]

Where is that? I thought that was the case, but I couldn't find it when I looked yesterday.

Sec. 411.200. APPLICATION TO LICENSED SECURITY OFFICERS. This subchapter does not exempt a license holder who is also employed as a security officer and licensed under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, from the duty to comply with Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or Section 46.02, Penal Code.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, Sec. 14.759, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.

Though I am not clear how this restricts concealed carry by security officers with CHL, since the authority of a CHL holder to carry comes from PC 46.15 and not the government code. I do not see how GC 411.200 abrogates the defense in PC 46.15.

 

[Koinonia]

Oh! That is correct, I apologize, It is illegal for Non-Commissioned to carry Concealed, with a license, though not illegal for Commissioned! (level 3). I read it wrong, when I skimmed it.

 

[jordanmills]

Though I am not clear how this restricts concealed carry by security officers with CHL, since the authority of a CHL holder to carry comes from PC 46.15 and not the government code. I do not see how GC 411.200 abrogates the defense in PC 46.15.

46.15 isn't a defense, it's an exemption. And the authority doesn't come from 46, it's natural. But that right is infringed on, then the infringement is exempted.