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Concealed Carry in Car without Permit?

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  • Madhouse

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    Mar 17, 2008
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    Tomball, TX
    GC §411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license
    holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person
    when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder
    display identification, the license holder shall display both the license
    holder’s driver’s license or identification certificate issued by the
    department and the license holder’s handgun license. A person who
    fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by
    this subsection is subject to suspension of the person’s license as
    provided by Section 411.187.
    Gun Zone Deals
     

    JKTex

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    Mar 11, 2008
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    I still think this is not correct. Iwas told in my CHL class that whenever you were asked to produce your ID you must produce your CHL regardless of whether you're carrying. I was told by an officer who stopped me and asked for ID this, when he saw my CHL in my wallet as I pulled out my DL.

    :confused:

    Sorry to get off the original topic...

    See the post 2 above this one. It's clear what is required, although does not spell out that you do not have to present the CHL if you DO NOT have a handgun on or about you. Laws are usually written to confirm what you do not have to do. However, as with many I'm sure, in my CHL class it was discussed and highly recommended that you produce it anyway as I stated above. There really isn't a reason not to and you never know how the LEO will react if you don't.

    And, with no disrespect to any LEO's, LEO's are usually not the best source for details of the law. If you ask 10 LEO's specific questions about this issue, you'll likely get 5 different answers. Some, I know, will give you the answer they want you to believe; right, wrong or indifferent. It's what action that's taken that's important. It's our responsibility to know the law and abide by it. If a misunderstanding of the law lands you in jail, that's where the experts on the law come in. Hassle, yes. Our system, yes. :D
     

    kells81

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    Apr 28, 2008
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    #1 I travel alot across TX
    #2 I keep a copy of TX handgun laws in my truck under my pistol.
    #3 I keep a loaded pistol in my truck at ALL TIMES.
    #4 I dont have a CHL and do not need one becuase of the change in law.
    #5 Just becuase they are the police does not mean they know the law.

    Now all those factored in, it has become a PITA on pullovers lately. I was stopped in godly by a godly PD officer which wasnt even in the city limits to start with. First question out of his mouth was asking if I had a weapon in the truck. I said yes and let him know where it was, was asked to step out of the vehicle, no biggie but it was cold and he wouldnt lemme get my jacket. he touched my gun kinda pissed me off.
    No ticket, dont even think it woulda stuck since after he let me go about a mile down the road I hit the city limit sign.

    Again, DPS officer on some remote road near wheeler TX, asked and I told him, he asked me to step out of the truck, I understood the policy here he was alone and no where near anything, I would have done the same thing here. Nice guy just covering his ass. didnt even look at my gun,

    Another one near Breckenridge TX, I grew up in the area and was driving the back roads like andretti. popped a corner in time to see a trooper, imediately pulled over and he was cool about it, asked me if I had a weapon in the vehicle told him yes and that was all that was said. didnt ask me to step out nor to see the weapon.

    I purchased a New Hemi truck the 1st of this year and have been pulled over for speeding 3 times, before the truck the last ticket I recieved was around 2000 or 2001
     

    stockFD3S

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    Apr 19, 2008
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    Leon Valley, TX
    Another one near Breckenridge TX, I grew up in the area and was driving the back roads like andretti. popped a corner in time to see a trooper, imediately pulled over and he was cool about it, asked me if I had a weapon in the vehicle told him yes and that was all that was said. didnt ask me to step out nor to see the weapon.

    I purchased a New Hemi truck the 1st of this year and have been pulled over for speeding 3 times, before the truck the last ticket I recieved was around 2000 or 2001


    I had a trooper pull me over while in my RX-7 and ask me "Do you have any guns, knives, or bazookas in your vehicle?" I responded, "Where would I fit a bazooka in there?" Ended up not getting a ticket.
     

    JKTex

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    Mar 11, 2008
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    DFW, North Texas
    #1 I travel alot across TX
    #2 I keep a copy of TX handgun laws in my truck under my pistol.
    #3 I keep a loaded pistol in my truck at ALL TIMES.
    #4 I dont have a CHL and do not need one becuase of the change in law.
    #5 Just becuase they are the police does not mean they know the law.

    Now all those factored in, it has become a PITA on pullovers lately. I was stopped in godly by a godly PD officer which wasnt even in the city limits to start with. First question out of his mouth was asking if I had a weapon in the truck. I said yes and let him know where it was, was asked to step out of the vehicle, no biggie but it was cold and he wouldnt lemme get my jacket. he touched my gun kinda pissed me off.
    No ticket, dont even think it woulda stuck since after he let me go about a mile down the road I hit the city limit sign.

    Again, DPS officer on some remote road near wheeler TX, asked and I told him, he asked me to step out of the truck, I understood the policy here he was alone and no where near anything, I would have done the same thing here. Nice guy just covering his ass. didnt even look at my gun,

    Another one near Breckenridge TX, I grew up in the area and was driving the back roads like andretti. popped a corner in time to see a trooper, imediately pulled over and he was cool about it, asked me if I had a weapon in the vehicle told him yes and that was all that was said. didnt ask me to step out nor to see the weapon.

    I purchased a New Hemi truck the 1st of this year and have been pulled over for speeding 3 times, before the truck the last ticket I recieved was around 2000 or 2001

    PITA maybe, but I don't think not having a CHL nor the new law are why. The ones that wanted you out of the truck are just being cautious. The ones that don't, had enough trust after you told them. CHL or not, I bet each stop would have been the same.

    I drive a diesel Excursion. A few months ago I saw a guy with Dodge with a Hemi and even dual exhaust hot rodding along on the way home from work. I admit it sounded good. I passed by once and puffed a little smoke and pulled ahead; teasing him. He came up near me and when he did it again, I stood on it and left him in a cloud of black smoke. The second time I let him get a head start by nailing it and come up around me before I stood on it. He of course went by but I walked away again but this time since he was just ahead, most of the smoke missed him.

    People reeeaaally under estimate the power that can be made with modern diesels. Even in 8000 lb trucks. A guy in a new 5 Series BMW learned the other day. :D

    For the record, I don't make a habit of racing etc. But if the opportunity arises every now and then, I like to have some fun if conditions allow it.
     

    K9117

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    May 5, 2008
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    Wood County, TX
    My first post here, but here goes.... I'm a Wood County sheriff's deputy (K9) and asking if a person's carrying a firearm in their car isn't in my standard line of questioning. That is, unless they've got a CHL or I'm not feeling good about the stop. It's rather routine to run into CHL holders these days and I've yet to ask them for their pistol. Those aren't the folks I'm worried about. A non-CHL holder carrying, well, I may ask for their pistol if I know it's in the car and within their reach.
    If/when it comes time to do a car search, well, a different line of questioning starts then.
     

    stockFD3S

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    Apr 19, 2008
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    Leon Valley, TX
    People reeeaaally under estimate the power that can be made with modern diesels. Even in 8000 lb trucks. A guy in a new 5 Series BMW learned the other day. :D

    I'll never forget the day a diesel pickup truck pulled me from a 70mph roll. Ended up talking to the owner sometime later and found he was making roughly 1000rwhp. :eek:
     

    CZ guy

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    May 13, 2008
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    Left of Galveston Bay
    I'm retired now but was working when the concealed carry law was passed. My normal contact with a person in a vehicle was always performed like EVERYONE was carrying a handgun, so I didn't have to change my routine in the least. I was so supportive of the new law, I started fingerprinting applicants at a local gun range as an extra job.

    Of course every officer saw the concealed handgun law differently, but every time I had a CHL handed to me, we ended up talking about weapons, ammo, holsters, etc. and sort of forgot the reason I stopped them! Matter of fact, I don't EVER remember writing a CHL holder a citation. We both walked away smiling and I even found a few new shooting buddies.

    I have an acquaintance that failed to produce his CHL for an officer until after the officer noticed a couple of extra mags in the console cupholder. BAD MOVE. When he admitted to having a weapon on him and got smart-mouthed about the officer being so jumpy.... he ended up losing his license.

    Other than him, I'm not aware of any hassles with permitted folks. I viewed them as being on MY side, as most officers do.
     

    AviatorDave

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    Mar 12, 2008
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    i dont have my chl yet... but if im traveling across counties. what should i do if im pulled over?

    When I was getting my fingerprint card at the Murphy PD, the officer taking my prints told me that as of last September, you don't have to be "traveling" to carry concealed without a permit in your car.

    I don't see anything to that effect in SB 378 (the castle law) however. Was he mistaken?

    I have my CHL now so it doesn't really matter, but I was curious.
     

    Texas1911

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    Austin, TX
    When I was getting my fingerprint card at the Murphy PD, the officer taking my prints told me that as of last September, you don't have to be "traveling" to carry concealed without a permit in your car.

    I don't see anything to that effect in SB 378 (the castle law) however. Was he mistaken?

    I have my CHL now so it doesn't really matter, but I was curious.

    Part of the Castle Doctrine is that the car is defined as your occupated territory, hence it is OK to carry in the car.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    When I was getting my fingerprint card at the Murphy PD, the officer taking my prints told me that as of last September, you don't have to be "traveling" to carry concealed without a permit in your car.

    I don't see anything to that effect in SB 378 (the castle law) however. Was he mistaken?

    I have my CHL now so it doesn't really matter, but I was curious.

    What the Castle Doctrine did is define and clarify that your car is also considered your domain and you are legally allowed to keep a loaded gun in it. It clarified that there are no if's, and's, or but's except that the handgun must be concealed in some manner (glovebox, center console, etc etc basically not in plain sight). Of course there are still the requirements that you cannot have a loaded handgun concealed in your car if it is during the commission of a felony, blah blah blah.

    From what I understand, before the Castle Doctrine was passed, it was legal to keep a loaded handgun in your car if you were considered to be "traveling". The issues that crept up because of the whole "traveling" ordeal is then people had to prove they were traveling and people were more likely to simply just get arrested by overzealous police. This became an obvious issue in some cities like Houston when one or more of the District Attorney's there were apparently instructing police to arrest ANYONE with a concealed handgun, regardless of the legality, and let the courts sort it out. Now with the Castle Doctrine, we don't have to prove a damn thing, we can simply have a concealed and loaded handgun in our car and that's it. Since all officers aren't the same, I'm sure people will still see the occasional overzealous ones that blow things out of proportion if they find out you have a concealed handgun in the car. The nice thing is now we have an actual law to refer back to, that clearly states we don't have to prove a d@mn thing, no proof required that you are traveling, nothing. As long as you weren't committing some of the noted criminal offenses mentioned in the Castle Doctrine, then you are all good and do not have to prove anything, simple as that.
     

    htxred

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    the castle doctrine put the burden of proof on the state. the DA has to prove that you were not traveling and were about to engage in a crime or are a known gang member.

    if you do not have a CHL, the gun can be in your car and loaded but cannot be easily accessible to the driver, basically means you should have to either get out of the car or take the key out the ignition to get access to it. having it under your seat is not good enough.

    this is my general conclusion after talking to various LEOs in harris county. might not be right, but this is LEOs in harris county basically told me, so its safe to say if you play by their rules you wont have the headache of wasting time.
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Technically there is no legal requirement of where and how the loaded handgun is stored in your car. Having it concealed in a non-accessible place is NOT a legal requirement. The letter of the law states simply that it must be concealed. I'm sure some officers might get bent out of shape about it but, technically as long as it's concealed that's all that matters. Here's the other thing though, don't let them search your car! ;) Everyone has the right to refuse a search. If you are doing stuff that causes you to void that right and allows them to perform a search of your car without permission (driving drunk, obvious signs of drugs on the dash or something) then it's probably not the best idea to have a loaded gun in the car anyways. ;)
     

    htxred

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    Technically there is no legal requirement of where and how the loaded handgun is stored in your car. Having it concealed in a non-accessible place is NOT a legal requirement. The letter of the law states simply that it must be concealed. I'm sure some officers might get bent out of shape about it but, technically as long as it's concealed that's all that matters. Here's the other thing though, don't let them search your car! ;) Everyone has the right to refuse a search. If you are doing stuff that causes you to void that right and allows them to perform a search of your car without permission (driving drunk, obvious signs of drugs on the dash or something) then it's probably not the best idea to have a loaded gun in the car anyways. ;)
    as much as i agree with you bro, i did mention something about avoiding unnecessary headache and wasting time!!! cooperating even when you did nothing wrong is usually what i try to go for!

    basically thats what they want, might not be written in stone, but you have a better chance of getting let go without any problems. sort of like, surrendering your CHL even if you're NOT carrying. yea theres no law, but it might be a good idea?
     

    JKTex

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    the castle doctrine put the burden of proof on the state. the DA has to prove that you were not traveling and were about to engage in a crime or are a known gang member.

    :eek: As much as I hate to believe it, I think you're serious? First of all, it's HB 1815 that deals with carrying in your car. Traveling has nothing to do with legally carrying in your car...anymore.

    if you do not have a CHL, the gun can be in your car and loaded but cannot be easily accessible to the driver, basically means you should have to either get out of the car or take the key out the ignition to get access to it. having it under your seat is not good enough.

    Another :eek: Concealed. That's it. I can't think of any law in Texas that's ever said what you're saying. But I think the next piece is why you said that, not because you believe it to be a law.....

    this is my general conclusion after talking to various LEOs in harris county. might not be right, but this is LEOs in harris county basically told me, so its safe to say if you play by their rules you wont have the headache of wasting time.

    :eek: With all due respect to LEO's, a LEO's personal opinion means squat. They know it. You can't "play" by one LEO's "rules/opinions" and satisfy the law. The law is the law and a LEO has nothing to do with the laws purpose or how it's written.

    I don't mean to appear to be picking your reply out, I actually could have multi-quoted several but your's was loaded well and covered some others comments too.

    HB 378 or what's nicknamed the Castle Doctrine in simplest terms, removes the requirment to retreat in the stated conditions and provides protection from criminal prosecution. It also clarifies and expands one's domicile to include more than just your house but your car, RV etc. It basically molded the law to the contour of human nature to protect.

    HB 1815 made much needed clarifications when carrying a handgun in your car. It's always been legal, it just had sloppy verbiage. It's no longer sloppy. The "Traveling" issue was part of the sloppy, undefined verbiage and that's gone. It clearly states the times you are considered to be legally in possession of a handgun. Or rather when you are considered illegally in possession.

    I'm surprised this thread keeps getting brought back from the dead. But it's a great example of (no offense to anyone) people relying on the wrong sources for information. CHL instructors, LEO's are all sources, but 2nd hand sources that can't be looked at as defining sources. The actual laws are available to us with the click of a mouse. It's all right there for our eyes. You can even download the CHL Handbook for free.

    It's scary to know so many people that carry, or will carrying a handgun are not familiar with the laws or rely on unreliable sources for the information. Knowing the laws are our responsibility and only we can be held accountable for knowing the laws. No one else is going to take the heat when we screw up because we didn't know the law.

    CHL classes are pretty much a joke as far as educational purpose goes. What's required is really nothing more than administrative gobbledeegoop. Most of us get lucky and the instructors are good, and fill in some but they usually also make it clear that the class is not the one stop shop for carrying a handgun.

    We're probably all guilty to some degree of getting caught up in the guns, how to carry, conceal, shot, modify, get the cool ones etc. etc. and forget the most important parts, how to be responsible and law abiding regardless of how pretty our guns are.

    Ok, get the flame-throwers warmed up and fueled!!
     

    JKTex

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    well that sucks. and here i thought i knew everything.


    Nope. Sorry, that's me.

    Just kidding..... :D

    It's confusing if you don't read through the legislation itself. Then, it's legal mumbo-jumbo so it takes 10 reads to get it. But in the end, most of the new stuff and changes, in Texas, have one thing at the core.......protecting and allowing us to exercise our rights, responsibly, with less fear.

    I'm no Perry fan by any means, but this is one area that under his command, has been greatly improved. Not giving him full credit, just that it's happened pretty much without incident during his reign.
     
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