Concealed Carry in Post Offices

[txinvestigator]

To give you an idea of the preponderance of the misconception of felony=federal, I polled my lab of graduate and PhD level engineers and all concurred that if you committed a felony, you had broken a federal crime.

OK, but you used the term in your diatribe over lousy CHL instructors and students who seemed not to know the law. That, my friend is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

Would it not now seem obvious that touching on some of the federal aspects of carrying concealed are very pertinent in the CHL class?

I never said it was not pertinent. You insisted that it was part of the Texas laws, and instructors were "supopsed" to teach it. That is just not true. You then maligned instructors who did not teach it the way you "thought" is should be taught. The fact is federal laws are not covered in the CHL curriculum nor are instructors required or encouraged to teach it.

My instructor covered some of these topics and I either didn't understand or have blurred the technically specific details that we are now debating.

That is quite understandable. Now you see that it is easy to forget or even blur what you were taught, and has nothing to do with "instructors who suck". Unless you are saying now that you think about it, your instructor sucked.

From the post on this forum in September of this year that seemed to settle most of the debate, 39CFR232.1 is where post office carry is most nearly define. It would seem to be a fitful criticism of CHL instructors that fail to speak about this most - seemingly - confusing of topics. Mine settled it by telling us not to carry past the metal detectors into the counter area, that seems pretty fair to me.

Again, Instructors are not taught federal laws nor how they apply to CHLers. It is not a course topic. Unless the CHL instructor has specific training regarding those federal laws he might or might not be giving the proper information. As you have pointed out, it is a debated topic on most gun forums.

And I have never been to a post office with metal detectors. Don't know where you have seen that, either. Fair is not necessarily the law or proper.

The bottom line is you spoke out of school and attacked a bunch of people (instructors) without knowing the facts. More than that, you were just flat wrong.

 

[djspump2003]

OK, but you used the term in your diatribe over lousy CHL instructors and students who seemed not to know the law. That, my friend is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

The bottom line is you spoke out of school and attacked a bunch of people (instructors) without knowing the facts. More than that, you were just flat wrong.

In an effort to clear the air to some extent - it was not my intention to offend the entire group of CHL instructors and say you suck. My word choice was poor. I will admit that I was not aware that CHL instructors were not directed to teach any aspect of federal law that a Texas CHL holder might violate.

I am sorry I hurt your feelings and am sorry that we can't hug it out, only fearing you would want more.

Thank you for teaching me about the difference between class III felonies and third degree felonies and that felony does not equal federal. Peace out - I need to study for my Digital System Design using VHDL exam tomorrow - it's not as easy as it sounds.

 

[txinvestigator]

In an effort to clear the air to some extent - it was not my intention to offend the entire group of CHL instructors and say you suck. My word choice was poor. I will admit that I was not aware that CHL instructors were not directed to teach any aspect of federal law that a Texas CHL holder might violate.

I am sorry I hurt your feelings

My feelings are not hurt. It bothers me when anyone denigrates an entire group of people, even when a member of that group actually screwed up.

and am sorry that we can't hug it out, only fearing you would want more.

Not unless you are a really cute woman. Then we can banter.

- I need to study for my Digital System Design using VHDL exam tomorrow - it's not as easy as it sounds.

Although I have no idea what that is, good luck on the test.

 

[Texas1911]

And I have never been to a post office with metal detectors. Don't know where you have seen that, either. Fair is not necessarily the law or proper.

Every Post Office in Austin (at least South Austin) has them. Mockingbird Station by me and David (djspump) has them.

Unless the detectors are for detecting people stealing the free packaging.

Maybe I'll walk into the office with a bare slide to see if it sets it off, or I notice anything.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

This argument has raged on as long as Texas has issued CHLs. There are 'apparently' conflicting federal statutes addressing weapons in a post office, but nothing in the Texas Penal Code (that I am aware of) that addresses concealed carry in a post office. The question comes up from time to time, and I always advise the my students that they shouldn't carry in a post office. It is not part of the curriculum, and I don't consider myself an expert on federal law related to post offices or anything else for that matter. My advice is just that... advice. Take it for what it's worth.

There probably are instructors that cover this, and assuming they know what they're talking about, more power to them. There are many ambiguities even in Texas law; many resulting from poorly written statutes, bad case law, or the fact that the statute has never been court-tested. The rule of thumb is when in doubt, don't carry; unless, of course, you can afford the consequences.

And to be honest, I've heard more than one instructor advising his/her students (in my opinion) incorrectly, so don't necessarily take everything your instructor says as gospel. In the end, you're responsible for your own actions.

 

[djspump2003]

Thanks Alan - bring that M1A Friday and we'll still measure the chamber. We did it for Keith's 5R, but he doesn't have either the caliper attachment to make sure he is seating properly on the ogive. He probably also doesn't have a competition seating die that seats on the ogive and not against the tip of the bullet, but one thing at a time.

 

[djspump2003]

My feelings are not hurt. It bothers me when anyone denigrates an entire group of people, even when a member of that group actually screwed up. Not unless you are a really cute woman. Then we can banter.

Although I have no idea what that is, good luck on the test.

I really wasn't trying to insult a group of people, in fact I truly do have great respect for anyone that will even attempt to educate the people ya'll do. Sorry it came off wrong. I had enough when I was the watch commander over 60+ armed guards on my ship. I had to gun up some of the least intelligent individuals that ever carried a weapon, but we were short on bodies, so that's how it goes. Thank God only one person was ever shot on my ship while I was on board. That was thanks to my supervisor giving room clearing training at 2am - or that's what he blamed it on. He evidently forgot his own sidearm was loaded and put a 115g FMJ right through the intestines of the guard that asked the question. Show him to ask a question! The guard was alright after surgery and 4 weeks of rehab. He did have a terrible scar down his neck where the corpsman decided to do the tracheotomy. Our MA1 was quickly a BM2 and off our ship for good. Master chief didn't like that kind of training.

 

[Texas1911]

Thanks Alan - bring that M1A Friday and we'll still measure the chamber. We did it for Keith's 5R, but he doesn't have either the caliper attachment to make sure he is seating properly on the ogive. He probably also doesn't have a competition seating die that seats on the ogive and not against the tip of the bullet, but one thing at a time.

Cool, will do.

I'll let you try out my new toy as well.

 

[40Arpent]

I am sorry I hurt your feelings and am sorry that we can't hug it out, only fearing you would want more.

Not unless you are a really cute woman. Then we can banter.

Now that right there is a funny exchange!

 

[txinvestigator]

Every Post Office in Austin (at least South Austin) has them. Mockingbird Station by me and David (djspump) has them.

Unless the detectors are for detecting people stealing the free packaging.

Maybe I'll walk into the office with a bare slide to see if it sets it off, or I notice anything.

If they are not the very narrow walk thru devices like at airports they would not be metal detectors. There are theft prevention.

 

[JKTex]

If they are not the very narrow walk thru devices like at airports they would not be metal detectors. There are theft prevention.

We have them at ours, but I never could figure out what could be stolen that would be tagged with the detection device. They even closed the little "store" inside and replaced it with more machines.

And I'd think metal detectors would cause a problem with people bring packages in that may include large enough metal objects to be detected.

Guess I'll try to find a way to ask. I sure hate pulling mine out and securing it and trying to do it so that someone walking by won't notice and freak.

 

[djspump2003]

If they are not the very narrow walk thru devices like at airports they would not be metal detectors. There are theft prevention.

Pretty sure you must be right on this one too. I know I've walked through there with a knife or two in my pocket and the keys and all and no alarm ever went off. There isn't that much more metal in the slide of a polymer pistol to set the thing off. I have set off the ones at the airport with a foil wrapper from a Priolosec pill in my pocket - to show how little metal will do it. I guess the bottom line (unless there are the narrow for-sure metal detectors present) being concealed is concealed. Most of the time if you're found out you have then broken two laws: Failure to conceal AND Carrrying somewhere you shouldn't have. But I think if anything now, I'm more convinced that I can carry in a post office - whether it's gray area or not. Who's gonna know?

 

[JKTex]

But I think if anything now, I'm more convinced that I can carry in a post office - whether it's gray area or not. Who's gonna know?

That's kind of the point in most cases, but........if you break the law and no one finds out, did you still break the law? Contrary to what some dumb criminals and Politicians think, the answer is yes.

 

[djspump2003]

so if a tree falls in the woods, does it still make a sound?

Is it better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?

 

[JKTex]

I assume you intended that to either be humor, or rhetorical? The answer is an individual one thus will be different for prudently answered only to ones self.

Why is it we drive on a parkway, but park on a driveway?

 

[40Arpent]

Why is it we drive on a parkway, but park on a driveway?

Okay, let's just finish this one off in one post:

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[JKTex]

The End.

Good night Gracie......

 

[chevydeerhunter]

I think this thread has run it's course.