Confused About Gun Carry In Vehicle....

[Old Man of the Mountain]

How sad for your family.

However, I can show you Texas' fairly simple Firearms laws, so you'll at least know them.

They write them pretty vague, but if you have some solid information on some solid legislation then I would like to hear it.

I have discovered that the rules for acceptable carry in a vehicle are enforced differently in the Ft. Worth area than they are down around the Houston area.

 

[JKTex]

They write them pretty vague, but if you have some solid information on some solid legislation then I would like to hear it.

I have discovered that the rules for acceptable carry in a vehicle are enforced differently in the Ft. Worth area than they are down around the Houston area.

Rules are irrelevant. Texas has laws. They are the same all over Texas.

I think TX was pretty thorough in explaining how LEA's and individual LEO's don't have the power to change or create laws; on the fly or other. LEO's doing his due diligence is one thing. The laws are what they are.

 

[txinvestigator]

They write them pretty vague, but if you have some solid information on some solid legislation then I would like to hear it.

I will show you the very clearly written Texas Laws after I answer your next comment

I have discovered that the rules for acceptable carry in a vehicle are enforced differently in the Ft. Worth area than they are down around the Houston area.

By "rules" do you mean "laws". If so, then you are mistaken. Texas laws are for ALL of Texas. If you mean that Ft Worth is either laxer of stronger in enforcement than Houston, then I challenge you to provide evidence; even anecdotal.



Regarding how they write laws "vague" lets look at the very basic law governing handgun carry in Texas, Unlawful Carrying Weapons. Penal Code Section 46.02.

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

It goes on to define premises and recreational vehicle, and give restrictions for car carry, but lets stop there. What do you find vague or ambiguous about that?

 

[Old Man of the Mountain]

I will show you the very clearly written Texas Laws after I answer your next comment



By "rules" do you mean "laws". If so, then you are mistaken. Texas laws are for ALL of Texas. If you mean that Ft Worth is either laxer of stronger in enforcement than Houston, then I challenge you to provide evidence; even anecdotal.



Regarding how they write laws "vague" lets look at the very basic law governing handgun carry in Texas, Unlawful Carrying Weapons. Penal Code Section 46.02.



It goes on to define premises and recreational vehicle, and give restrictions for car carry, but lets stop there. What do you find vague or ambiguous about that?

The Texas State Rifle Association said last year that their official stance is that Texas Law for right to carry in a vehicle is too vague and might lead to "problems" which I intemperate as innocent law abiding folks going to prison over the whim of an over zealous Police Office, D.A., an Judge. (That would be a bad combination, and it could happen.)

A Lawyer in Ft. Worth told me that the local Police there are using a "Law of Threes" to determine if you are properly carrying a handgun in a motor vehicle (if you do not have a CCL).

I talked to a Police Officer in the Houston Area, and he never heard of such a thing as a "Law of Threes" for handgun possession in a motor vehicle.

According to the Lawyer, in Ft. Worth, if you are found to have a handgun in your possession in a motor vehicle that is loaded and within reach (no CHL) then they are taking in you and your handgun, at the discretion of the Officer.

Their "Law of Threes" is that there must be at least three steps that prevent you from immediate self defense with your own handgun, such as:

1. Out of reach

2. Unloaded

3. Inside locked glove box

Again, a Police Officer in Houston says he never heard of such a thing, and he is a better than average Cop!

There are two problems with gun laws, the laws themselves, and their interpretation!

 

[txinvestigator]

The Texas State Rifle Association said last year that their official stance is that Texas Law for right to carry in a vehicle is too vague and might lead to "problems" which I intemperate as innocent law abiding folks going to prison over the whim of an over zealous Police Office, D.A., an Judge. (That would be a bad combination, and it could happen.)

I would LOVE to see that statement, but for purposes of this discussion lets assume they actually said that;

Whoever wrote that is not too bright. I posted the law and it is clear. I asked YOU what was unclear and told you I would try to help you. Is it unclear to YOU, or are you just repeating what you have been told/think you have been told?

A Lawyer in Ft. Worth told me that the local Police there are using a "Law of Threes" to determine if you are properly carrying a handgun in a motor vehicle (if you do not have a CCL).

When did the lawyer tell you this, what is his connection to official policy of the FWPD? Because he is WRONG. Even before 2007 that makes NO SENSE.

I talked to a Police Officer in the Houston Area, and he never heard of such a thing as a "Law of Threes" for handgun possession in a motor vehicle.

Of course he hadn't, its nonsense and not real.

According to the Lawyer, in Ft. Worth, if you are found to have a handgun in your possession in a motor vehicle that is loaded and within reach (no CHL) then they are taking in you and your handgun, at the discretion of the Officer.

No, they are not. It is unmitigated BS that someone would tell you otherwise. Again, did YOU read the law?

Their "Law of Threes" is that there must be at least three steps that prevent you from immediate self defense with your own handgun, such as:

1. Out of reach

2. Unloaded

3. Inside locked glove box

Again, a Police Officer in Houston says he never heard of such a thing, and he is a better than average Cop!

There are two problems with gun laws, the laws themselves, and their interpretation!

Again, all BS.

Rather than tell us how other people are confused, why don't you tell us what YOU don't understand. I already posted a starting point;

Regarding how they write laws "vague" lets look at the very basic law governing handgun carry in Texas, Unlawful Carrying Weapons. Penal Code Section 46.02.

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
​

It goes on to define premises and recreational vehicle, and give restrictions for car carry, but lets stop there. What do you find vague or ambiguous about that?

 

[Old Man of the Mountain]

I would LOVE to see that statement, but for purposes of this discussion lets assume they actually said that;

Whoever wrote that is not too bright. I posted the law and it is clear. I asked YOU what was unclear and told you I would try to help you. Is it unclear to YOU, or are you just repeating what you have been told/think you have been told?

When did the lawyer tell you this, what is his connection to official policy of the FWPD? Because he is WRONG. Even before 2007 that makes NO SENSE.

Of course he hadn't, its nonsense and not real.

No, they are not. It is unmitigated BS that someone would tell you otherwise. Again, did YOU read the law?



Again, all BS.

Rather than tell us how other people are confused, why don't you tell us what YOU don't understand. I already posted a starting point;

On the surface that sounds very solid and secure to a reasonable, honest, and intelligent adult, doesn't it?

But how is an unreasonable, dishonest, or unintelligent "official" going to limit who has "control" of that motor vehicle?

If you and your wife are both in an auto, and both carrying a firearm, are you both legal? Is the vehicle under the control of the two of you, or only just the driver, or only just the one named on the car title? How about passengers, are they also in control of the vehicle that you have invited them to ride along in, perhaps even a co-driver, or are they in violation of the law?

Anything that is at all, in any way whatsoever open to discretion or interpretation can and may be used against any law abiding Citizen at the whim of any "official".

 

[txinvestigator]

On the surface that sounds very solid and secure to a reasonable, honest, and intelligent adult, doesn't it?

But how is an unreasonable, dishonest, or unintelligent "official" going to limit who has "control" of that motor vehicle?

I feel badly that you live with such paranoia.

If you and your wife are both in an auto, and both carrying a firearm, are you both legal?

Moot point. The vehicle is our vehicle.

How about passengers, are they also in control of the vehicle that you have invited them to ride along in, perhaps even a co-driver, or are they in violation of the law?

Of course a passenger is not in control of a car. Of course a passenger is not in violation.

Anything that is at all, in any way whatsoever open to discretion or interpretation can and may be used against any law abiding Citizen at the whim of any "official".

I believe you are either; too paranoid to have a reasonable conversation with, or you are being disingenuous and trolling just for argument.

Reasonable people with common sense have no problems obeying or understanding these simple laws.

 

[Old Man of the Mountain]

I feel badly that you live with such paranoia.

Moot point. The vehicle is our vehicle. Of course a passenger is not in control of a car. Of course a passenger is not in violation.





I believe you are either; too paranoid to have a reasonable conversation with, or you are being disingenuous and trolling just for argument.

Reasonable people with common sense have no problems obeying or understanding these simple laws.

You seem to have a lot of faith in a system that is broken and does not work. So your answer does not surprise me a bit.

A long time ago, in the 1970's or 1980's, when it was real normal for folks to carry a handgun when traveling, there was a cute young girl that invited me to her church, so I went.

During the prayer requests, the preacher asked us all to pray for a young man who was about to go away to prison.

At that point I was wondering just what the Hell kind of church is this?

About two weeks later I heard why this young man was in prison.

He offered to drive his grandparents somewhere about halfway across Texas. Since he always carried a handgun when he traveled, and since he felt responsible for the safety of his grandparents, he brought along his handgun.

I don't know if he got stopped for speeding, or what the probable cause was, but some sort of a Law Enforcement Officer discovered that he had a handgun with him in the car.

It was not his car, the title was not in his name, so this charming Law Enforcement Officer arrested him for illegal possession of a firearm, and he went to prison because of it.

Anything that can be left to any sort of interpretation will land someone in prison.

I am opposed to all the so called gun laws, as none of them are any good for a law abiding citizen!

 

[txinvestigator]

You seem to have a lot of faith in a system that is broken and does not work. So your answer does not surprise me a bit.

No, I just don't thnk the government is out to get me.

About two weeks later I heard why this young man was in prison.

He offered to drive his grandparents somewhere about halfway across Texas. Since he always carried a handgun when he traveled, and since he felt responsible for the safety of his grandparents, he brought along his handgun.

I don't know if he got stopped for speeding, or what the probable cause was, but some sort of a Law Enforcement Officer discovered that he had a handgun with him in the car.

It was not his car, the title was not in his name, so this charming Law Enforcement Officer arrested him for illegal possession of a firearm, and he went to prison because of it.

Anything that can be left to any sort of interpretation will land someone in prison.

I am opposed to all the so called gun laws, as none of them are any good for a law abiding citizen!

As I have highlighted in red, you don't know ANYTHING about that case. Some 4th hand story about someone twenty or 30 years ago is meaningless to this conversation.

But I'll tell you this; back then it was illegal to have a handgun on or about your person. Traveling was a defense to prosecution. That means the person can be arrested and must prove that he was traveling. Unless he took a plea or waived a trial by jury, 6 of his fellow Texans didn't believe he was traveling.

And unless he was carrying where alcohol was sold or served, he was not "sent to prison". UCW is and was a class A misdemeanor unless it was where alcohol was sold or served. Misdemeanor's cannot be punushed by being sent to prison. They are served in a county jail, and the MAXIMUM sentence was one year.

So, I raise the flag

 

[Old Man of the Mountain]

No, I just don't thnk the government is out to get me.




As I have highlighted in red, you don't know ANYTHING about that case. Some 4th hand story about someone twenty or 30 years ago is meaningless to this conversation.

But I'll tell you this; back then it was illegal to have a handgun on or about your person. Traveling was a defense to prosecution. That means the person can be arrested and must prove that he was traveling. Unless he took a plea or waived a trial by jury, 6 of his fellow Texans didn't believe he was traveling.

And unless he was carrying where alcohol was sold or served, he was not "sent to prison". UCW is and was a class A misdemeanor unless it was where alcohol was sold or served. Misdemeanor's cannot be punushed by being sent to prison. They are served in a county jail, and the MAXIMUM sentence was one year.

So, I raise the flag

I was told the kid went to Huntsville and I have no reason to doubt that.

The kid did nothing wrong, was not a criminal, had no criminal intent, and was arrested by some wonderful example of the Legal System who was not defending Texas, not taking a criminal off the street, not doing his duty, not doing anything of any benefit to us Tax Payers, he was just making an arrest for the benefit of his own personal careerer.

How did that same jerk off turn it into a Felony? What difference does it make. I know full good and well how that might have been turned into a Felony but so what. It should be a non-issue. That kid should have never been arrested.

If the kid had been a Judge's kid, it would have all gotten dropped. Same for the child of a D.A., some Lawyers, a State Representative, the Governor, Lt. Governor, State Attorney General, or a good friend of the Arresting Officer.

There is no equal protection under the Law and no equal Justice under the Law.

The more Laws we have, the worse it gets.

The Right to Keep and Bear Firearms shall not be Infringed!

How does any of the rest of it stand up in Court when it is unsupported by the over riding Law?

 

[JKTex]

At what point does the mercy rule apply to stop the game and slaughter?

 

[txinvestigator]

I was told the kid went to Huntsville and I have no reason to doubt that.

If what you were "told" is even true, then the "kid" was carrying where alcohol is sold or consumed. So much for "traveling" as an excuse.

The kid did nothing wrong,

Evidently he did.

was arrested by some wonderful example of the Legal System who was not defending Texas, not taking a criminal off the street, not doing his duty, not doing anything of any benefit to us Tax Payers, he was just making an arrest for the benefit of his own personal careerer.

You have NO IDEA what transpired, but it is interesting how you freely denigrate a LEO while knowing nothing. Even your excuse for facts tell a different tale.

How did that same jerk off turn it into a Felony? What difference does it make. I know full good and well how that might have been turned into a Felony but so what. It should be a non-issue. That kid should have never been arrested.

Again, what the hell do you know about it? Apparently a jury of 12 of his peers who, unlike you, had the benefit of the FACTS. I say the young man was a jerk. Heck, I have as much info as you do.

If the kid had been a Judge's kid, it would have all gotten dropped. Same for the child of a D.A., some Lawyers, a State Representative, the Governor, Lt. Governor, State Attorney General, or a good friend of the Arresting Officer.

You are now just being inane.

THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING.

Good grief.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

Open carry a rifle and your problem is solved.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Open carry a semi auto Browning BAR (yes the original machinegun BAR) and see if anyone screws with you ever again. LOL

 

[Farmboy Marine]

In layman's terms:

THE LAW -
You are allowed to carry a handgun in your vehicle as long as:
1) you LEGALLY own it (CHL does not matter in this instance)
2) someone looking into your vehicle cannot see the ACTUAL WEAPON (it does not matter if the gun is in a bag, case, or a big box that say "THIS IS A GUN")
3) you are not part of a street gang
4) You are not committing a crime (other than minor traffic violations and the like)

GOOD IDEAS -
1) Be smart. By keeping your gun in the front seat under a towel or magazine is just testing the law and asking for trouble. Just because you legally CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Just put it in your glove box or somewhere that you KNOW people wouldn't be able to see it.
2) Be a decent human being. If another person is in danger of their life, please use your weapon to protect them.
3) Don't give the LEO a reason to search your car. If you get pulled over, it's a personal choice whether you want to tell them you have a weapon. I usually do, because if they end up searching my vehicle I'd rather them know about it beforehand than be surprised when they find it on their own.
4) Be educated on gun laws. Ask someone who deals with this sort of thing regularly (judges, lawyers, etc), and don't rely on everything you read online.
5) My grandfather says to treat the gun in your car like you would the "gun" in your pants: "LEAVE IT ALONE unless you are taking it out, putting it in, or using it. Don't advertise it, because you don't want to get busted 'brandishing' it in public."

Hope this helps!

 

[West Texas]

In layman's terms:

THE LAW -
You are allowed to carry a handgun in your vehicle as long as:
1) you LEGALLY own it (CHL does not matter in this instance)
2) someone looking into your vehicle cannot see the ACTUAL WEAPON (it does not matter if the gun is in a bag, case, or a big box that say "THIS IS A GUN")
3) you are not part of a street gang
4) You are not committing a crime (other than minor traffic violations and the like)

GOOD IDEAS -
1) Be smart. By keeping your gun in the front seat under a towel or magazine is just testing the law and asking for trouble. Just because you legally CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Just put it in your glove box or somewhere that you KNOW people wouldn't be able to see it.
2) Be a decent human being. If another person is in danger of their life, please use your weapon to protect them.
3) Don't give the LEO a reason to search your car. If you get pulled over, it's a personal choice whether you want to tell them you have a weapon. I usually do, because if they end up searching my vehicle I'd rather them know about it beforehand than be surprised when they find it on their own.
4) Be educated on gun laws. Ask someone who deals with this sort of thing regularly (judges, lawyers, etc), and don't rely on everything you read online.
5) My grandfather says to treat the gun in your car like you would the "gun" in your pants: "LEAVE IT ALONE unless you are taking it out, putting it in, or using it. Don't advertise it, because you don't want to get busted 'brandishing' it in public."

Hope this helps!

Common sense goes a LONG, LONG way!

 

[chiefglocker]

Sometimes common sense is not so common

 

[Farmboy Marine]

100% agreed. If more people just thought about things before asking questions, they'd find most the answers to all the "what if" posts on here.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

Open carry a semi auto Browning BAR (yes the original machinegun BAR) and see if anyone screws with you ever again. LOL

I've open carried full auto weapons. I've also been asked by the cops to present my tax stamp.

 

[Farmboy Marine]

It's actually not illegal to walk down the street with an unloaded weapon as long as you're not "brandishing it in a threatening manner". You'll probably get some funny looks and I imagine someone will call the cops, but the worst that can legally happen is that the police will tell you to take it home.

But once again, CAN you? - Yes. SHOULD you? - Probably not.