Cops Barge Into Cali. Parents’ Home, Take Their Baby After They Seek 2nd Medical Opin

[Doc007]

Speaking strictly from the medical side of things. The first hospital obviously thought that there was immediate risk of significant harm or death if they did not act. We have no medical records to know what was found by the original Dr that was covered up from the second Dr. Knowing the amount of paperwork and court appearance and general BS that the Dr is going to go through for this it makes me suspect the parents.

 

[txinvestigator]

I guess I don't get why a reader can't look at the vid for what's there and say with empathy "Wow, that's terrible. Hope they get their baby back". I mean, what "decision" are you actually making by making a human comment? Further more, if you do say such a thing does that mean you've condemned the LEOs in the vid? I'm trying to understand why LEOs on the forum here, and I guess any forum always wear the cop hat. I'm not criticizing, just trying to understand. <Tangent alert> For example, TxI, you take a lot of heat here for your direct style (In fact all the LEOs here do). I figured out why after I met you. You wear your LEO/CHL instructor hat here on the forum all the time (which is a huge resource and I thank you for it). I like and respect you. You are very knowledgeable. I notice you don't do it too often, but it's nice to see you let your hair down, so to speak. LEOs are professional and it shows. But I wonder if LEOs are human too? That's all

I WISH I actually had hair to let down.

You titled the article with "cops barge into home...." as if the cops acted all on their own. Some street cop decided to ignore due process and the law.

If you read the article you read phrases like "she alleges", "according to him", etc. No doctors, police or other point of view. The article is biased and sensational with no real investigative purpose or attempt to actually discover what happened.

I know you, so I suspected you were not actually bashing the cops. However, without your comment after posting the link we really don't know your intent or thoughts. We just have your title to go on.

As a former cop, I have actually done the job. It is no secret I support the police. I also have zero tolerance for unethical behavior on the part of the police, or of them abusing their powers. Since I have actually DONE the job I have an actual experience, not an uneducated point of view. I know by reading a report when there is too little info to judge. I have been wrongfully accused, judged unfairly and suffered at the hands of a quick to react media and public.

I give cops the benefit of the doubt, because they ARE human. They do a job most cannot, will not do. They will search for your lost kid, chase and fight the person who victimizes you, run to danger when you run away, and all while the public sits in judgment of them. You hate them, (you used generically) unless they save your kid. If they make a mistake, I can actually look at the totality of the circumstances. if they act with intent in an unlawful or unethical manner, I am all for punishment to the fullest extent allowed.

I notice you told Texan2 to cool off. I don't read his posts that way. I just see him posting very calm and matter of fact. Mine is meant in the same manner. I am just talking here.

Back to the OP...
When I first saw the vid, since it had CPS & LEOs coming in, reminded me of the recent incident in NJ were CPS came into that family's home when they saw the pic of the son holding a rifle. In that case they came in without a warrant and wanted to see the Dad's firearms/safe. Next thing I thought about, since in the video interview they said that CPS places a substantial amount of weight on information from health care providers, to what extent in regards to parents/home/privacy rights? With Obamacare looming and the gun-grabbing atmosphere (and let's face it, a POTUS scorned re: gun control), I'm curious if health care is an avenue that will be exploited. Currently, doctors are asking patients if they own/posses firearms. It only takes a Doc with a certain political/personal decision to push an agenda in his practice. I am curious about incentives (if any?) for hospitals. Is it crazy to think large hospitals & their boards could take a certain position and have their staff really push policies that invade patient privacy rights? In the OPs case, they took their baby. Can we be certain that the medical communities won't be used to attempt to take people's firearms at some point?

That is an interesting and thought provoking point of view.

 

[Shorts]

Again there is no evidence in the video that the 2nd DR was told what happened at the 1st hospital. W/O that we don't know if the baby was cleared with proper info. I can tell you from working for a 4 year period in CPS that it is not uncommon for one DR to clear a child and not find traumatic injuries, ect. and another to find just that. Especially if the family doesn't tell the DR why they are there, or what has been done to or happened to the child. In this case being admitted to the ICU. If they are not told what to look for then they might miss it. I have testified over and over on this. Having been one assigned to review CPS cases for error, IMO I can there is not enough factual info to go buy to conclude the facts. By now CPS would have had to go to court for this emergency removal and prove their facts. That portion becomes public info. Where is the follow up story? I would hope that the case worker had contacted the 2nd DR to find out if he had been told the facts from the 1st hospital.

I actually may be opening a PI business to do these types of cases due to my background. Sure there are some that are not handled correct, but the facts will speak for themselves if sought out.

Thanks TJ for the insight. It sheds light.

Will you be really opening a PI business?

Speaking strictly from the medical side of things. The first hospital obviously thought that there was immediate risk of significant harm or death if they did not act. We have no medical records to know what was found by the original Dr that was covered up from the second Dr. Knowing the amount of paperwork and court appearance and general BS that the Dr is going to go through for this it makes me suspect the parents.

Yeah, the hospital did think it was pretty serious. I think it was this exchange below that spooked the mom, or at least that is what we are being told spooked the mom.

Anna and Alex Nikolayev are described as loving parents who took their baby, who has a heart murmur, to Sutter Memorial Hospital in Sacramento when he started exhibiting flu-like symptoms. The family has undergone plenty of doctor visits in the last five months for the their son’s heart, and were unsettled by the treatment he was receiving. At one point, Anna says, a nurse came in and started giving the baby, named Sammy, medicine. When she asked what it was the nurse allegedly replied, “I don’t know.”

“I’m like, you’re working as a nurse, and you don’t even know what to give to my baby…?” Anna said in an interview with ABC’s local affiliate, News10/KXTV.

They later found out that medicine was antibiotics, which Anna claims the doctor told her Sammy shouldn’t have received.

I am curious if it was just the mom not being confident in the quality of care (..ie "I don't know" from a nurse with a needle would bug me too, even if it was going into my arm) and then the stakes being turned up with the prospect of a complicated-compared-to-a-shot heart surgery. Or if they had concerns about the cost of heart surgery when they heard it mentioned. The reason I wonder about that is in the update link is the baby is being scheduled for treatment and possibly surgery at the new hospital. So, QoC or cost? It's a question, not an accusation or indictment, that's all.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I think this was also severely complicated by the fact that the parents couldn't speak good English.

 

[General Zod]

If it's true that a nurse told them "I don't know" when asked what she was injecting their child with, I can completely understand losing faith in the quality of care that hospital was offering. My reply would've been "Well, why don't you go find out before you give it to my child..." coupled with physically standing between the syringe and my kid.

 

[txinvestigator]

If it's true that a nurse told them "I don't know" when asked what she was injecting their child with, I can completely understand losing faith in the quality of care that hospital was offering. My reply would've been "Well, why don't you go find out before you give it to my child..." coupled with physically standing between the syringe and my kid.

Agreed. I would never allow that.

 

[steve-o]

I know this article is missing info, but emergency or not, why would a doc #1 be opposed to a second opinion, especially if it is for a potential serious issue? If he's correct, a second opinion would confirm that the baby needed the medical treatment.

When my daughter was born we spent 3 days in the hospital for my wife to recover from the C-section. We quickly lost confidence in the medical staff, because every time they had a shift change, the new nurse would contradict what the previous nurse was doing. We had one nurse bring us the wrong baby for feeding, I freaked and followed this woman back to the nursery to find my daughter, and to make sure that the other baby was brought to its parents. Same thing happened with the on-call docs, they would change the game and imply that the previous guy didn't know what he was doing. It was exhausting because we felt like we had to watch everyone like a hawk, and question and have them validate everything they were doing, so neither of us got any sleep the entire time. So if there was a serious medical issue with either my wife or my daughter, you bet your ass I would get a second opinion outside of that hospital.

 

[Shorts]

I WISH I actually had hair to let down.

Thought you'd get a kick out of that

You titled the article with "cops barge into home...." as if the cops acted all on their own. Some street cop decided to ignore due process and the law.

I titled the thread as the article was titled per The Blaze (copy & paste). They are not my words. I wanted to take no liberty or credit with creating the wording other than to select the text after the colon (for length's sake while still retaining the intent of the author/article). If that was a mistake on my part, I note it for future postings. I will include the entire title.

If you read the article you read phrases like "she alleges", "according to him", etc. No doctors, police or other point of view. The article is biased and sensational with no real investigative purpose or attempt to actually discover what happened.

I agree and I think that was intentional in order to draw attention to their situation. I do think those parents were desperately seeking someone to help them in a situation they might feel totally helpless. Sort of like a "Somebody!? Anybody?! Help!" I can't say I blame them for feeling helpless. They just had their baby taken away, literally from the mom's arms and she had no immediate recourse to fight to physically keep possession. That's not a slight that is in fact what happened there as the video shows.

I know you, so I suspected you were not actually bashing the cops. However, without your comment after posting the link we really don't know your intent or thoughts. We just have your title to go on.

Yeah. You know, I've posted a few news articles to the forum here and I don't include any commentary in my OP. Reason being is 1. I want to get the article/video out for discussion. 2. I've drawn no conclusion and I'm still chewing on it. 3. I am curious what kind of course the discussion will take based on the article/vid itself rather than have my commentary create a line of contention from the start. (Another forum I'm on is a very professional atmosphere. I don't have posting privileges on certain subforums based on my post count or level of membership. What I have discovered for myself is that in being a (forced) onlooker of often controversial discussions, I've learned to sit back and read and think a little more. While I don't like to admit I have things about myself I should correct or work on to have a 'better' me, I'm honest enough with myself, and now everybody here, to acknowledge that I would be better served to take some lessons. And I have. I'm not 'fixed' because I've come to this realization. I'm just trying to be better each time.).

As a former cop, I have actually done the job. It is no secret I support the police. I also have zero tolerance for unethical behavior on the part of the police, or of them abusing their powers. Since I have actually DONE the job I have an actual experience, not an uneducated point of view. I know by reading a report when there is too little info to judge. I have been wrongfully accused, judged unfairly and suffered at the hands of a quick to react media and public.

I give cops the benefit of the doubt, because they ARE human. They do a job most cannot, will not do. They will search for your lost kid, chase and fight the person who victimizes you, run to danger when you run away, and all while the public sits in judgment of them. You hate them, (you used generically) unless they save your kid. If they make a mistake, I can actually look at the totality of the circumstances. if they act with intent in an unlawful or unethical manner, I am all for punishment to the fullest extent allowed.

I see your point of view. I can understand why it is a tough job, at least from a service perspective. As you know my husband is Navy. Having been by his side I've seen and heard the shtuff they've dealt with on a day to day basis. It wears on him. I imagine for LEOs the day in day out of constant contact with conflict is brutal. (Today's program brought to you by the letter 'C'. C is for cookie, that's good enough for me)

I went to bed last night thinking about this thread. An analogy I tied it to was LEO's are like parents, especially when one s an enforcer of a difficult action...aka, the disciplinarian of the two. Usually Dad's are enforcers while Mom is the nice one who comforts. Dad spanks. Mom hugs. But that was an especially simplistic analogy I sorta of happened upon with a "you know what?..." as I was crawling into bed. I'm certain that makes no sense. Just say 'Bless your heart'

I notice you told Texan2 to cool off. I don't read his posts that way. I just see him posting very calm and matter of fact. Mine is meant in the same manner. I am just talking here.

lol K

That is an interesting and thought provoking point of view.

Just a curiousity more than anything else based on recent trends and events.

 

[hkusp1]

Cops Barge Into Cali. Parents’ Home, Take Their Baby After They Seek 2nd Medica

This is confusing.

First hospital calls the cops because they think the baby is going to die.

Second hospital says the baby is fine cops leave parents go home with baby.

Next day cops and cps show up and snatch the baby for a reason that was already resolved the previous day.

I hate california.

 

[oldguy]

Not a police problem but more so the doctor at hospital one offended over the rejection,personally I would be interested to know where he was trained. Once he spoke with Hospital 2 he should have let it go, now two lawyers are involved and I smell money coming for mom/dad and hopefully baby, after please leave California.

 

[Shorts]

I know this article is missing info, but emergency or not, why would a doc #1 be opposed to a second opinion, especially if it is for a potential serious issue? If he's correct, a second opinion would confirm that the baby needed the medical treatment.

Curious if money had anything to do with it. If the patient goes elsewhere for treatment, that's money the Doc doesn't get, right?

 

[Texanjoker]

Thanks TJ for the insight. It sheds light.

Will you be really opening a PI business?

I want to... about 1000k to get it going to work part time for my own company with fees and insurance. Afraid to give up a full time job with benefits at this time. Just debating the cost vs risk at this point. I know I can do it and I see the need in the area of CPS cases having somebody that worked both the CPS and LE system.

 

[winchster]

Cops Barge Into Cali. Parents’ Home, Take Their Baby After They Seek 2nd Medica

I want to... about 1000k to get it going to work part time for my own company with fees and insurance. Afraid to give up a full time job with benefits at this time. Just debating the cost vs risk at this point. I know I can do it and I see the need in the area of CPS cases having somebody that worked both the CPS and LE system.

Seriously? A million dollars? Surely you meant 100k. If not, then wow.

 

[txinvestigator]

Cost is about 1 grand in Texas in licensing and registration fees, and insurance costs.

 

[M. Sage]

Now they need to move the hell out of California.

 

[Texas42]

This is confusing.

First hospital calls the cops because they think the baby is going to die.

Second hospital says the baby is fine cops leave parents go home with baby.

Next day cops and cps show up and snatch the baby for a reason that was already resolved the previous day.

I hate california.

Up front, I don't know what is going on with the child.

Just FYI, if you take a minor to the hospital/ER there are situations where you will not be allowed to leave against medical advise. Not always, but if the physician really thought that leaving would mean significant harm to the patient (being a minor) they wouldn't have left the first hospital.

Now, I have no idea what is going on with this kid. I don't treat children (nor do I want to), but I have had patient's ask for certain requests for a consult or treatment. Most of the time you can discuss it with them and can resolve it, but sometimes it is just ridiculous. The worst are medical personnel who either practice differently or in a different field.

PS; and the people that administer the medications are often the lowest paid and the most un-involved people in the decision making of the case. Hospitals are confusing, especially if you don't who is who.

 

[stdreb27]

Cops Barge Into Cali. Parents’ Home, Take Their Baby After They Seek 2nd Medica

If it's true that a nurse told them "I don't know" when asked what she was injecting their child with, I can completely understand losing faith in the quality of care that hospital was offering. My reply would've been "Well, why don't you go find out before you give it to my child..." coupled with physically standing between the syringe and my kid.

I have a new kid. The first thing they did was try to give her a hep b shot. She's still puking amniotic fluid. So I asked "why? Isn't that for all intents and purposes an STD she is no Pam Anderson."

This doctor, could not answer the question, after 2-3 minutes of rambling incoherent statements. I asked her, "have you really never been asked why before?" And told her to if you cant tell me exactly why i should do what you're recommending i do you have no business being a doctor and to leave.


As for this case, it doesn't add up. How can the kid go from "needing" a major surgery to going home.

My sister in law went to a emergency clinic once to get a couple stitches,and out of fear of a lawyer, I mean because they were good doctors, they tried to force her to give her kid a tetanus shot. (She's got a hippy streak in her so they aren't vaccinating their kids). She refused, so they bullied her told her they'd call CPS etc.

Anyway she still refused, and got her normal doctor to agree with her. A couple days later CPS shows up for a house visit. Those bastards called up cps anyway.

 

[Blind Sniper]

Two words, people - Patient's Rights. Learn them and do NOT be afraid to invoke them. Any doc who is unwilling to respect those rights shouldn't be practicing (seriously, it's illegal in most states).

 

[Texanjoker]

Seriously? A million dollars? Surely you meant 100k. If not, then wow.

1k or 1000$ not sure why I typed the k but shiat happens.

 

[winchster]

Cops Barge Into Cali. Parents’ Home, Take Their Baby After They Seek 2nd Medica

1k or 1000$ not sure why I typed the k but shiat happens.

Wasn't trying to be an ass, just looking for confirmation on the amount. I was surprised is all.