cops beat another

[M. Sage]

It's all or nothing. We all have to do what is right, or we are all free to do anything what we want.

You're absolutely right on that, especially in the context of this discussion.

Does the rule of law apply to the enforcers of said law? It has to, otherwise the law is worthless.

Law cannot be enforced by the lawless. Order cannot be achieved through anarchy.

I used to feel differently when I was in my teens and early 20s.

 

[GI-John]

In America there seems to be this false idea that we all feel better about ourselves about treating the bad guy with dignity and respect. In reality, most of dont...a lot of us dont. Who decided that the bad guy deserves a better fate then the victim? I don't know, and it bothers me. It seems like we're all trying to please or not a offend a person or majority that does not exist. The cops are humans just like the rest of us Americans. Its even in our movies and media. At the end of the show the bad guy gets his dish and we praise it. Are we preserving an image and to who do we owe this image? The worse parts of the world cut hands off, commit honor killings, hangings, torture openly. However when we capture them we give them trial, feed them, nourish them. Some where along the lines our officials forgot about the American People. The product is the a stronger more confident criminality. Im not for street hangings or stoning, but Im not for getting in the way of LE or American Interests

 

[Texas42]

M. Sage, I just talking about having some common sense here. Actions have consequenses. Say, I and hit on a guy's wife. The husband gets mad and hits me. I was just talking, utilizing my right to free speach. Is it wrong? At what point does it become wrong? I would say that it might not be legal, but it isn't wrong.

I'm not talking about cutting off some guy's hands or putting a bullet in your wife's head cause you think she is getting around. I'm not talking about being judge and jury. I'm just talking about rational consequenses to behavior. Like say, trying to kill a cop. You may not be treated with kid gloves by the people you tried to kill. I know it is thin line, and these police crossed it.

I know that the expecting people to use their common sense and rational judgment is asking too much now.

I just don't agree with the idea that we have to treat criminals better than we treat common, law abiding citizens (cough ACLU cough). It doesn't break my hear that three people at gitmo had some water poured down their throat. It does break my heart how certain political people manipulate things like this for political gain.

I know this is a little off topic, but it has been bothering me. Anyone seen the movie "Dark Knight?" Hollywood exemplifies this ideology. Essentially, batman has several opportunities to kill the joker, but never does because it isn't "right" to kill a madman while he is bent on your distruction.

I'm not saying that you, or anyone on this board is agreeing with the ACLU or hollywood, or anything. I was just kind of rambling.

 

[M. Sage]

In America there seems to be this false idea that we all feel better about ourselves about treating the bad guy with dignity and respect. In reality, most of dont...a lot of us dont. Who decided that the bad guy deserves a better fate then the victim? I don't know, and it bothers me. It seems like we're all trying to please or not a offend a person or majority that does not exist. The cops are humans just like the rest of us Americans. Its even in our movies and media. At the end of the show the bad guy gets his dish and we praise it. Are we preserving an image and to who do we owe this image? The worse parts of the world cut hands off, commit honor killings, hangings, torture openly. However when we capture them we give them trial, feed them, nourish them. Some where along the lines our officials forgot about the American People. The product is the a stronger more confident criminality. Im not for street hangings or stoning, but Im not for getting in the way of LE or American Interests

When did it all start? 1792 is when it all started in the US with the 4th and 5th Amendments.

I never said anything about treating BGs with dignity and respect, but as soon as you start saying "oh, it's alright: they're badguys" you open the door to this becoming common in all police interactions with the public. Without a trial, how can we tell who a badguy is or isn't? Do we leave that up to the sole discretion of an officer on the scene? Talk about handing over raw, condensed power!

I'd argue that the fact that the Constitution prevents punishment except as proscribed by a fair and lawful trial including a jury of ones peers is an American interest.

M. Sage, I just talking about having some common sense here. Actions have consequenses. Say, I and hit on a guy's wife. The husband gets mad and hits me. I was just talking, utilizing my right to free speach. Is it wrong? At what point does it become wrong? I would say that it might not be legal, but it isn't wrong.

Yes, it's wrong. Violence should be reserved for when there is a need. That said, if someone is getting "creepy" and I'm worried that he's going to harm my wife, I'll nuke his ass faster than you can blink. But as long as no harm is intended or likely, there is no justification for violence.

I'm not talking about cutting off some guy's hands or putting a bullet in your wife's head cause you think she is getting around. I'm not talking about being judge and jury. I'm just talking about rational consequenses to behavior. Like say, trying to kill a cop. You may not be treated with kid gloves by the people you tried to kill. I know it is thin line, and these police crossed it.

Shades of gray. And yes, you're talking about being judge and jury. In fact, in the "hitting on someone's wife" example, the husband would not only be judge and jury, but legislator, too by making it illegal to chat up his woman.

Tried to kill. As soon as the need for violence ends, the justification for violence ends and it's a matter of the courts. See also: US Constitution.

I know that the expecting people to use their common sense and rational judgment is asking too much now.

Must be it always was, or the nation wouldn't have been founded with the code of law that it was...

I just don't agree with the idea that we have to treat criminals better than we treat common, law abiding citizens (cough ACLU cough). It doesn't break my hear that three people at gitmo had some water poured down their throat. It does break my heart how certain political people manipulate things like this for political gain.

Nobody's saying treat them better. Innocent until proven guilty has to mean something every time or it never meant anything. As far as I'm concerned, hang 'em after a fair trial. Once convicted, I care almost zero what happens to people who commit real crimes (ones with victims, not victimless crimes).

I know this is a little off topic, but it has been bothering me. Anyone seen the movie "Dark Knight?" Hollywood exemplifies this ideology. Essentially, batman has several opportunities to kill the joker, but never does because it isn't "right" to kill a madman while he is bent on your distruction.

I'm not saying that you, or anyone on this board is agreeing with the ACLU or hollywood, or anything. I was just kind of rambling.

I've always hated it when the hero in Hollywood movies has good reason and full justification to whack a badguy and passes on it... especially since it usually costs other people their lives later in the movie, but the hero is fine with it somehow.

 

[GI-John]

When did it all start? 1792 is when it all started in the US with the 4th and 5th Amendments.

I never said anything about treating BGs with dignity and respect, but as soon as you start saying "oh, it's alright: they're badguys" you open the door to this becoming common in all police interactions with the public. Without a trial, how can we tell who a badguy is or isn't? Do we leave that up to the sole discretion of an officer on the scene? Talk about handing over raw, condensed power!

I'd argue that the fact that the Constitution prevents punishment except as proscribed by a fair and lawful trial including a jury of ones peers is an American interest.

All hail Mr. Sage (the know it all). In case you all did not know. Hes here to tell us not to voice ourselves and that doing so is anti-american. He also likes to give history lessons. Heres one for ya Sage. The First Amendment.
--side note to ya. No one here has any say so what happens to the officers or suspect, they are giving their thoughts on a youtube video. I do not want street beatings either. All we are saying is that the video provides enough info for us to think that the suspect deserved what ever came his way. If you are really concerned then visit a correctional facility...Guards beat them to a pulp every hour. I prevent this from happening to me by being straight laced. If you want to prevent it from happening all together then utilize the system.

 

[M. Sage]

Ah, I'm a know-it-all now for saying that cops shouldn't be judge jury and jailer at the side of the road. Gotcha.

What goes on in a correctional facility, if you'll read what I said earlier, I don't care about. Those folks have been convicted.

 

[MadMo44Mag]

We can argue all day if the BG had it coming.
Was it right or wrong!
Problem was it was caught on tape!!!
Beat hell out of them but don't be seen!!!
No witnesses, no crime
No body, no murder
Proof of said action can get you fired, prosecuted and jailed.
I give MOST LEO plenty of leeway because of the job the do and the BS they have to endure.
Most BG deserve way more than they get.
There are exceptions where the LEO is as much a criminal as the BG but that the exception not the rule.
Lets not start on the topic of BG rights because once they are in custody, they have more rights than the victim!!!!

 

[A_FIVE-O]

Dude, when I saw that officer get hit by the van I was like "man let's beat the shite out of that focker". Then the perp gets ejected and is motionless then starts getting asp'd then I was like wooaah "caught on camera". I hate being a Monday morning quarterback, but the end of the video looks really bad...
There's a time and a place for payback and that wasn't the right time.
IMO the officers shouldn't have got fired, but maybe some time off without pay.

 

[Texas42]

Ah, I'm a know-it-all now for saying that cops shouldn't be judge jury and jailer at the side of the road. Gotcha.

What goes on in a correctional facility, if you'll read what I said earlier, I don't care about. Those folks have been convicted.

I don't think your a know it all, I'm just going to give certain people a LITTLE leeway in particular situations.

This is all just simple conversation, right?

 

[M. Sage]

And I'm of the opinion that police need to be held to the highest standard.

Can't keep your temper under control? You shouldn't be carrying a loaded gun on your hip 40+ hours a week. Simple as that.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I'm one of the biggest "pro-LEO" types you'll likely ever meet. Wore the badge, took my share of BS. Have 2 BIL's (one COP in a small town, one COP at a VA Hospital), one nephew and one son serving as LEO's. THIS incident....simply unacceptable, period. The suspect is down, not resisting, and at that point aggressive actions should STOP - period. Did he deserve more? Oh, HELL yeah. If he's in severe pain and bleeding, would I call the ambulance at the latest point I could? Likely. I WOULD follow procedure/protocol, but you can bet I'd do my best to ensure he was as miserable as possible. But to assault him - no, beyond the pale. As others have noted, there's plenty of ways to "payback" without violating rights. Jerks like this will usually act out again - and he'll get what's coming to him.
Recently had a friend whose daughter was raped/beaten. He wanted to hunt him down, but he held back. We sat in the courtroom last month and watched the little POS cop a plea that netted him 15 years, a permanent Sex Offender registration, and a permanent restraining order. I can guarantee you that his life in prison will be FAR worse than anything my friend could've done to him - and as I pointed out to him, once released, if he gets near him or his family, he has every legal reason to put his lights out once and for all - and know he'll be "clean".
Reminds me of a punk we had years back - he whipped one of our guys badly just for the fun of it (continuing after he was unconscious even). When we arrested him, he was cocky as hell - taunting us, etc. He stayed that way until, as we turned him over at the county jail, we loudly informed the intake officer to "keep an eye on him - he's been a valuable informant for us for years!!"
Yeah - karma works!

 

[zembonez]

If you run from the cops, they should have the right to turn off the cameras and start shooting or beat the living hell out of you. It's a choice that no decent citizen makes.

No sympathy here. The piece of filth got what he had coming.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

Reminds me of a punk we had years back - he whipped one of our guys badly just for the fun of it (continuing after he was unconscious even). When we arrested him, he was cocky as hell - taunting us, etc. He stayed that way until, as we turned him over at the county jail, we loudly informed the intake officer to "keep an eye on him - he's been a valuable informant for us for years!!"
Yeah - karma works!

That's freakin' AWESOME! Too bad the cops in this video weren't that "creative". I agree with everyone else in that I can see where they were coming from, and that at the same time - they were DEAD WRONG in what they did.

...hell of a lesson in why to not run from the cops though. You never know who will be wearing that badge when they catch you. You could get Reed and Maloy, or you could end up with Dirty Harry.

 

[Wolfwood]

yeah well whether or not he deserved it, this behaviour is plain sickening.
if i cant beat the holy shit out of somone and not gt arrested, neither should they.
the driver and the leos should be locked up at this point.
now they are gonna get security guard jobs and take out their failures on anyone they can get their hands on. (wild guess)
im not siding with the driver, but i tend to side with the law. sure tie his arms at the wrists and elbows behind his back with zip ties and dont be to gentle when ya load him on the stretcher but wailing on a perp is only going to make him hate cops more (in this guys case that might not be possible) , and make young people either want to become and leo so they can do this sort of thing, or hate leos because of all the overstepping and abuse of power. either way it is a lose-lose.

these days it seems like more and more LEOs, who for the most part are a group of good guys, think they are at war with the general population.

im suprised im not hearing a louder outcry from the leos on this forum.
where are the patriots?


***edit***
TexasRedneck --- Hell yeah good for you.
but your avatar still creep me out