Copying a NFA trust?

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

Most professionally prepared NFA trusts run around $600. Just because the trust costs more than others does not mean that it is similar. I have seen trusts that cost Nothing, $50, $100 $350, $500, $600, $750, & 900 in Texas. Many are just typical estate planning trusts and do not consider the unique aspects of firearms ownership, possession, or transfer. A living trust or revocable living trust with nfa or atf thrown in a few times will allow the acquisition of the items, but will not deal with the real issues many of us will face upon our death or disability.

The cost should include creating a trust for your needs and desires as well as teaching you how to use the trust, what it means, how to properly purchase items on Form 4's as well as on a Form 1. Describe the common procedural violations of the NFA as well as how to avoid them. The trust should be created to allow for future generations to use the items.

Generally you get what you pay for, but in this case you have to know what you are looking for also.

 

[rodnocker1]

I've been thinking about whether to set up a trust or to incorporate. While your information has been most helpful, I have a couple of questions I will email you with. Thanks once again.

 

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

Rodnocker1 I would be happy to answer your individual questions. dgoldman @ guntrustlawyer.com

 

[SC-Texas]

David is correct about the costs of the trust in Texas and he is absolutely correct on the other points.

When you pay a lawyer to prepare a trust, you should get some explanation and counseling on how the trust operates, how the NFA paperwork should be completed and submitted and the trust should reflect the needs of you and your family.

Sean

 

[Ataim0002]

operates...

David is correct about the costs of the trust in Texas and he is absolutely correct on the other points.

When you pay a lawyer to prepare a trust, you should get some explanation and counseling on how the trust operates, how the NFA paperwork should be completed and submitted and the trust should reflect the needs of you and your family.

Sean

This is so on point. I can't tell you how many legal entities, be them trusts, llcs, etc, that are setup by an attorney and the owners/trustee has no clue what to do. Especially when it comes to estate planning, which, in my opinion, should be a huge discussion when setting up a NFA trust.

 

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

Texas NFA trusts

One unique aspect of our trust is that it has been reviewed and modified by more than 40 firearms and estate planning lawyers across the country. Each time a modification is suggested it is evaluated to see if it should be included in the other states trusts as well. The trust keeps getting better and better. There are some people in Texas who have copied earlier versions of our trust which do not have the major modifications and limitations of liability that are now included in the trust.

 

[SC-Texas]

This is so on point. I can't tell you how many legal entities, be them trusts, llcs, etc, that are setup by an attorney and the owners/trustee has no clue what to do. Especially when it comes to estate planning, which, in my opinion, should be a huge discussion when setting up a NFA trust.

This is one of many good reasons to have an attorney prepare your trust.

You will be able to meet with the attorney and discuss the trust and that attorney will be available by phone to discuss any questions that you have with the trust.

Computer programs aren't going to answer the phone when you have a question.

Sean Cody
Attorney
281.451.4175

 

[Madhouse]

Computer programs aren't going to answer the phone when you have a question.

That point was proven to me again today, that's why I'm glad I had Sean draw up my trust.

 

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

Questions and NFA trusts

We are happy to answer questions about the trusts, and proposed actions with NFA firearms by email or telephone without cost to our clients.


David Goldman (904) 685-1200 NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman

 

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

Legal Zoom vs Quicken for NFA trusts

While we have written extensively on Quicken and the problems for NFA trusts, I recently reviewed a Legal Zoom Trust. The results were very much the same. Legal Zoom allowed the creation of a trust which facilitates the purchase of a NFA firearm, but had many problems involving the following
1) the Grantor / Settlor was not defined properly
2) problems when property is transferred from decedents will (if they own other NFA firearms)
3) allowed for revocation of trust when the trust has NFA firearms
4) No requirement of trustee to be legally able to possess the items
5) Problems dealing with homestead properly? also why would you place a homestead in a NFA trust?
6 Termination of trust creates problems because Trustee cannot transfer items in time
7) Nothing to warn unknown future trustees about compliance with state or federal law or what actions are necessary.
8) No power for individual to open bank accounts or deal with ATF when there are multiple trustees.
9) Successor Trustee must sell off assets to divide equally among heirs if there are not an equal number of each items for each beneficiary. You cannot preserve the assets for your children.
10) No power to use NFA firearms in the trust - the trustee violates their duty to Beneficiary to preserve and maximize assets in the trust.
11) What about geographic restrictions?
12) what about age restrictions?
13) Legal zoom trust would transfer a machine gun to 5 year old child upon the death of a parent.

All in all the Quicken Trust was a more complete but equally inappropriate trust for the Purchase of NFA firearms.

David Goldman NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman

 

[SC-Texas]

David,

You are spot on with your assessment of the legalzoom/Quicken trusts.

Sean

 

[1HOTMOMMA]

Has anyone used the Suze Orman Will and Trust Kit?

 

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

I have reviewed several of hers and they have the same problems quicken and legalzoom have. Basically they do not deal with the unique issues of firearms and really do not create trusts that deal with the common problems that occur with incapacity or death. They are find for transferring normal assets is nothing goes wrong in your family.

many people were trying to use them because they were free for a while. You often get what you pay for.

David Goldman
NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman

 

[SC-Texas]

Once again, a form trust is just that. Its a one size fits all document. Its a common form that is not customized for the individual's needs. The form trusts simply do not address the needs of the individual. In the case of NFA issues, the form trusts do not respond to the specific issues that arise with the ownership of items regulated by the NFA. The form trusts do not change themselves to fit your needs. The form trusts require that you change your needs to fit into its form.

The reason for retaining an attorney is to receive the benefit of that attorney's experience and his or her counsel. I am not only a collector of NFA weapons, I am also an FFL/SOT when I am not wearing my attorney hat.

Mr. Goldman and/or myself prepare a document that is custom tailored to your needs. When you retain an attorney, you are retaining that attorney to answer your questions and provide counseling that is tailored to your individual situation and NFA ownership. I provide support for your trust after I prepare one for you. Mr. Goldman does the same.

 

[Angrypoonani]

Once again, a form trust is just that. Its a one size fits all document. Its a common form that is not customized for the individual's needs. The form trusts simply do not address the needs of the individual. In the case of NFA issues, the form trusts do not respond to the specific issues that arise with the ownership of items regulated by the NFA. The form trusts do not change themselves to fit your needs. The form trusts require that you change your needs to fit into its form.

The reason for retaining an attorney is to receive the benefit of that attorney's experience and his or her counsel. I am not only a collector of NFA weapons, I am also an FFL/SOT when I am not wearing my attorney hat.

Mr. Goldman and/or myself prepare a document that is custom tailored to your needs. When you retain an attorney, you are retaining that attorney to answer your questions and provide counseling that is tailored to your individual situation and NFA ownership. I provide support for your trust after I prepare one for you. Mr. Goldman does the same.

What if I wanted a revocable living trust that is also able to hold other things besides NFA weapons like: property, bank accounts, and other assets... but I still want it to hold a collection of automatic weapons of suppressors?

 

[Hochdruck]

What if I wanted a revocable living trust that is also able to hold other things besides NFA weapons like: property, bank accounts, and other assets... but I still want it to hold a collection of automatic weapons of suppressors?

Is there any way ,or benefit, to have a trust to deal with NFA items and use by peoples and another trust to deal only with ones personal estate planning?

 

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

Putting other assets in a NFA trust is a bad idea. To create a proper NFA trust the powers and duties are modified to such an extent that it would be an unwise decision to put other types of assets within the trust. In addition, you would be placing those assets in additional and unnecessary risk. Just like you would not want to place a vehicle in a trust because of the risk of attachment to your bank account, you would not want to put your bank account in an NFA trust. Hope that helps

Generally we would recommend doing two trusts, the first for NFA and other firearms in some circumstances, and the second for your other assets.


David Goldman
Apple Law Firm PLLC
331 East Monroe Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202

Tel (904) 685-1200 Fax (904) 212-0678

Jacksonville Florida Estate Planning Lawyer - Duval County, FL Asset Protection Attorney - Florida Gun Trust Lawyer
NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman
Florida Estate Planning Lawyer Blog :: Published by Jacksonville, Florida Estate Planning Lawyer | David M. Goldman

 

[DopaVash]

Thanks a ton for all the information. I've learned a great deal about all the pitfalls that are easy to fall in.

Question: I'm guessing that you can use the same trust if you'd like to purchase multiple NFA Items, right? Does the trust have to be created specifically for Items you outline at creation, or can you modify and add others as you go.

Say for instance, I wanted to build a SBR, then later I wanted to add a suppressor. Then later I wanted to buy another NFA Firearm. Can this all be done on the same trust, just modified as we go, or does the trust have to be specifically written for this at the start.

It would seem that if you can modify and resubmit a Trust because it was invalid, you can probably modify and resubmit a Trust because you wanted to buy more toys.

Thanks again for the work you do, if not for all the advice.

 

[SC-Texas]

The short answer is yes.

One trust may be used to hold numerous items that are regulated by the NFA.

It is not necessary to create a separate trust for each item.

 

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

The trust can purchase any type of firearms, the only times it is limited is by the individual when there are state specific limitations, but we do not recommend limiting it even in those situations because it is possible that the trust will be used in other states.

As Sean stated above, one of the advantages of using a trust is that you can purchase multiple items over time without the need for additional yearly fees or costs like those associated with a corporation or LLC.


David Goldman
Apple Law Firm PLLC
331 East Monroe Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202

Tel (904) 685-1200 Fax (904) 212-0678

NFA trusts in over 40 states
NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman
Florida Estate Planning Lawyer Blog :: Published by Jacksonville, Florida Estate Planning Lawyer | David M. Goldman