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Coronavirus Epidemic, Part 2

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  • DubiousDan

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    I have a bad heart. If I get jumped and beaten in the park and have a heart attack and die, either on scene or three days later in the hospital as a result, which was the cause of death? Over half of the "covid cases" were already in a care facility and dieing. Really not much different.

    We know that people with comorbidities are more vulnerable and people in care facilities in particular, as proven by Cuomo. If you have a bad heart modern medicine can sometimes keep a person alive for a number of years. The thing is that covid tends to attack the lungs and cause hypoxia which in a person with a bad heart can cause a heart attack. If they die the cause of death would be the heart attack. Heart failure with covid. So, while it may be true that many of the people who die my have died from a preexisting condition, they may have lived a number of years longer if they had not contracted covid.

    People who overdose on heroin die from respiratory failure. Is it fair to say that their death was not caused by then heroin overdose?
     

    DubiousDan

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    Well, before drawing that conclusion...

    What is the percentage of deaths to the population (this is the true "death rate")? Total number of deaths is not valid for this analysis.

    What was the standard deviation on death rate over the past 20 years?

    Is this year outside the three sigma variation?
    It's from the CDC. Check their web site.

    I posted that in response to a meme that was posted that claimed to have information from the CDC that does not exist. Ask him the same question.
     

    oldag

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    We know that people with comorbidities are more vulnerable and people in care facilities in particular, as proven by Cuomo. If you have a bad heart modern medicine can sometimes keep a person alive for a number of years. The thing is that covid tends to attack the lungs and cause hypoxia which in a person with a bad heart can cause a heart attack. If they die the cause of death would be the heart attack. Heart failure with covid. So, while it may be true that many of the people who die my have died from a preexisting condition, they may have lived a number of years longer if they had not contracted covid.

    People who overdose on heroin die from respiratory failure. Is it fair to say that their death was not caused by then heroin overdose?
    That ain't how the virus deaths are being recorded.

    They are including "died with Covid" along with "probable Covid deaths" in the figures. And they have been cheating. Colorado reduced their Covid death count 25% overnight when they got caught.
     

    Mowingmaniac 24/7

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    THIS: "Well if that is true, then every number they are giving us is a lie."

    Ah, yeah...

    And da fooch, he ought to get off his stupidly elevated horse.

    He thinks God wants to be him...
     

    DubiousDan

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    That ain't how the virus deaths are being recorded.

    They are including "died with Covid" along with "probable Covid deaths" in the figures. And they have been cheating. Colorado reduced their Covid death count 25% overnight when they got caught.
    Covid is difficult because it can attack and damage most of the organ systems especially if a cytokine storm is involved. The hypoxia that comes with it can also damage many organ systems. On top of that there is the problem of blood clots that is common with covid. The clots can travel to various parts of the body and cause damage. They can cause strokes in the brain, heart attacks, pulmonary embolism, and damage to any organ of the body. The clots block blood flow to part or to an entire organ depending on their size and the artery they are obstructing. So a person with covid may die of a stroke, heart attack or renal failure caused by a blood clot but they also died with covid.
     

    innominate

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    Covid is difficult because it can attack and damage most of the organ systems especially if a cytokine storm is involved. The hypoxia that comes with it can also damage many organ systems. On top of that there is the problem of blood clots that is common with covid. The clots can travel to various parts of the body and cause damage. They can cause strokes in the brain, heart attacks, pulmonary embolism, and damage to any organ of the body. The clots block blood flow to part or to an entire organ depending on their size and the artery they are obstructing. So a person with covid may die of a stroke, heart attack or renal failure caused by a blood clot but they also died with covid.
    I'm not very patient and already hitting the vodak. Is there evidence of clotting on the arterial side? The few things I've googled talk about dvt, pe etc. Not that it's any better dying from right side heart failure.

    From the nejm
    "Cases can progress rapidly to disseminated intravascular coagulation with either vascular occlusion or catastrophic hemorrhages, dyspnea, hypoxemia, hypotension, hemostatic imbalance, vasodilatory shock, and death. Many patients have respiratory symptoms, including cough and tachypnea, that can progress to acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), with hypoxemia that may require mechanical ventilation. The combination of hyperinflammation, coagulopathy, and low platelet counts places patients with cytokine storm at high risk for spontaneous hemorrhage.

    In severe cases of cytokine storm, renal failure, acute liver injury or cholestasis, and a stress-related or takotsubo-like cardiomyopathy can also develop.9 The combination of renal dysfunction, endothelial-cell death, and acute-phase hypoalbuminemia can lead to capillary leak syndrome and anasarca — changes that are similar to those observed in patients with cancer who are treated with high-dose interleukin-2.10 Neurologic toxicity associated with T-cell immunotherapy is referred to as immune effector cell–associated neurotoxicity syndrome or cytokine release syndrome–associated encephalopathy.7 The neurologic toxic effects are often delayed, developing several days after the onset of the cytokine storm."

    All that is right side failure problems. Maybe I'm just being nit picky
     

    DubiousDan

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    I'm not very patient and already hitting the vodak. Is there evidence of clotting on the arterial side? The few things I've googled talk about dvt, pe etc. Not that it's any better dying from right side heart failure.

    From the nejm
    "Cases can progress rapidly to disseminated intravascular coagulation with either vascular occlusion or catastrophic hemorrhages, dyspnea, hypoxemia, hypotension, hemostatic imbalance, vasodilatory shock, and death. Many patients have respiratory symptoms, including cough and tachypnea, that can progress to acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), with hypoxemia that may require mechanical ventilation. The combination of hyperinflammation, coagulopathy, and low platelet counts places patients with cytokine storm at high risk for spontaneous hemorrhage.

    In severe cases of cytokine storm, renal failure, acute liver injury or cholestasis, and a stress-related or takotsubo-like cardiomyopathy can also develop.9 The combination of renal dysfunction, endothelial-cell death, and acute-phase hypoalbuminemia can lead to capillary leak syndrome and anasarca — changes that are similar to those observed in patients with cancer who are treated with high-dose interleukin-2.10 Neurologic toxicity associated with T-cell immunotherapy is referred to as immune effector cell–associated neurotoxicity syndrome or cytokine release syndrome–associated encephalopathy.7 The neurologic toxic effects are often delayed, developing several days after the onset of the cytokine storm."

    All that is right side failure problems. Maybe I'm just being nit picky
    Not really nit picky. From what I've read venous clots are the most common but arterial clotting is not unknown. I was not aware of the incidences of DIC.

    Similar symptoms are shared between influenza and SARS-CoV-2, such as fever, cough, shortness of breath, or fatigue. Blood clotting can occur in patients hospitalized with the flu, but only in veins. For patients with COVID-19, blood clots can appear in either veins or arteries.
     

    DubiousDan

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    I'm not very patient and already hitting the vodak. Is there evidence of clotting on the arterial side? The few things I've googled talk about dvt, pe etc. Not that it's any better dying from right side heart failure.

    From the nejm
    "Cases can progress rapidly to disseminated intravascular coagulation with either vascular occlusion or catastrophic hemorrhages, dyspnea, hypoxemia, hypotension, hemostatic imbalance, vasodilatory shock, and death. Many patients have respiratory symptoms, including cough and tachypnea, that can progress to acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), with hypoxemia that may require mechanical ventilation. The combination of hyperinflammation, coagulopathy, and low platelet counts places patients with cytokine storm at high risk for spontaneous hemorrhage.

    In severe cases of cytokine storm, renal failure, acute liver injury or cholestasis, and a stress-related or takotsubo-like cardiomyopathy can also develop.9 The combination of renal dysfunction, endothelial-cell death, and acute-phase hypoalbuminemia can lead to capillary leak syndrome and anasarca — changes that are similar to those observed in patients with cancer who are treated with high-dose interleukin-2.10 Neurologic toxicity associated with T-cell immunotherapy is referred to as immune effector cell–associated neurotoxicity syndrome or cytokine release syndrome–associated encephalopathy.7 The neurologic toxic effects are often delayed, developing several days after the onset of the cytokine storm."

    All that is right side failure problems. Maybe I'm just being nit picky
    I like what you posted. It did a better job of showing the complexity of what covid can do to the body than what I tried to do. However I prefer to try to keep things simple.
     

    innominate

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    I like what you posted. It did a better job of showing the complexity of what covid can do to the body than what I tried to do. However I prefer to try to keep things simple.
    Yeah. The quote was wordy but basically all the symptoms can be attributed to heart failure or a coagulopathy. I work with a Dr that talks over the patients heads. He's good and has good bedside manner but uses medical/ technical terms instead of basic terms to explain things.
     

    DubiousDan

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    Yeah. The quote was wordy but basically all the symptoms can be attributed to heart failure or a coagulopathy. I work with a Dr that talks over the patients heads. He's good and has good bedside manner but uses medical/ technical terms instead of basic terms to explain things.
    I spent 30+ yrs in the ER translating Dr. speak into English for my patients. I can't recall how many time I had to explain that fractured meant broken. The provider would tell them that they had an ankle fracture and the patient would say to me, "I'm lucky it's just fractured, not broken." That's just one example that sticks in my head. Of course a number of people that come to the ER aren't that well educated.
     

    jrbfishn

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    So..... if I have respiratory problems and a bad heart,,,and I get a cold and it stresses my lungs and heart and I have a heart attack and die,,,, did I die of a heart attack due to respiratory distress, or from the common cold?
    It was known over a year ago, before it got to the U.S. that the elderly and physically infirm were the most likely to die from covid. The same as severe colds, flu, respiratory infections, pneumonia and a few other problems.
    The biggest difference is, covid 19 was man made. Not natural.
    Well that and the fact that "they" have decided to list covid, even the probable or possible cases, as the primary cause of death instead of a secondary cause. From what I have seen, and the CDC itself has said, you have about the same chance of dieing from pneumonia or the flu by themselves as covid by itself.
    And you keep going back to the same article that has no numbers the percents were derived from other than estimates, possibilities and probabilities. No hard numbers.


    Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     

    DubiousDan

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    So..... if I have respiratory problems and a bad heart,,,and I get a cold and it stresses my lungs and heart and I have a heart attack and die,,,, did I die of a heart attack due to respiratory distress, or from the common cold?
    It was known over a year ago, before it got to the U.S. that the elderly and physically infirm were the most likely to die from covid. The same as severe colds, flu, respiratory infections, pneumonia and a few other problems.
    The biggest difference is, covid 19 was man made. Not natural.
    Well that and the fact that "they" have decided to list covid, even the probable or possible cases, as the primary cause of death instead of a secondary cause. From what I have seen, and the CDC itself has said, you have about the same chance of dieing from pneumonia or the flu by themselves as covid by itself.
    And you keep going back to the same article that has no numbers the percents were derived from other than estimates, possibilities and probabilities. No hard numbers.


    Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

    There are links in the article to raw numbers you have to follow them. If I do the leg work and post the numbers you'll just say the numbers are made up or inflated so why should I bother.

    If there is no excess mortality due to covid, why did El Paso, Tarrant County, and other cities across the US need refrigerated trailers to store the bodies when they ran out of space in their morgues during the peaks?

    For the third time, what I posted was in response to a graphic posted by kbaxter. What he posted had numbers that claimed to come from the CDC. The numbers in his graphic were made up and did not come from the CDC and I pointed that out. Why don't you ask him about his numbers?

    What I trust more than any numbers from any source are the former coworkers I still talk to. When they tell me that in December their hospital had three full floors filled with covid patients, I have no reason to doubt them. When they tell me about the numbers of people that were are dying, I have no reason to doubt them. Never in all the years that I was working was there an entire floor filled with flu patients, or even a single wing with flu patients. Not even during the swine flu epidemic. During my time I took care of many flu patients and I can't recall a single adult patient that I admitted as an inpatient. I know there were some but it is nothing like now.
     
    Last edited:

    DubiousDan

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    I heard about the trailers, never thought they were actually used.
    BB1aUCHQ.img


    Photos show El Paso using refrigerated trucks in parking lots to store a backlog of bodies from a new COVID-19 surge
     
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