Decision time!

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  • easy rider

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    Jun 10, 2015
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    My job does not mandate the flu shot. Our infectious disease policy does not have a mandate statement. Policy states we can chose to wear masks.
    Same here, but then I believe that's only because we are public, and that's the state policy.
     
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    mad88minute

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    That part is still up in the air legally. There's not a lot of legal precedent in requiring experimental medical procedures to maintain employment. This is going to keep the courts tied up for years.....

    ....it's a good time to be a lawyer....
    They won't be experimental for long. I suspect they will rush approval just to silence that argument.

    Edit: and rubber stamp

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    oldag

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    I will not quit. And the company definitely can’t afford to lose any employees! We are severely under staffed, and I work in a trade that is nearly dead, so there are no experienced people out there to replace me. Looks like a workplace game of chicken! Original deadline was October. It was moved to December for my department. My department head, who is vaccinated, has let me know he supports me, and claims, if he wasn’t vaccinated already, he would refuse the mandate. Others I’ve talked to, are going to comply. It seems as if I may be the only “stubborn” one. But the co-workers who I chose to be friendly with, all support me. I was worried the bonus money would get me some shit from the sheep, but I’ve only had one person mention it to me.


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    I hope you are right. But I have seen people who thought they were indispensable shown the door more than a few times.
     

    oldag

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    That part is still up in the air legally. There's not a lot of legal precedent in requiring experimental medical procedures to maintain employment. This is going to keep the courts tied up for years.....

    ....it's a good time to be a lawyer....
    Disgustingly, every case that has gone to court so far has lost.
     

    CodyK

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    Sep 5, 2019
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    I hope you are right. But I have seen people who thought they were indispensable shown the door more than a few times.

    Yeah, that’s for sure! I like to tell my guys that when they get a little cocky, and say, “what would y’all do without me?” I tell them, the jobs getting done with or without you!


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    toddnjoyce

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    Sep 27, 2017
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    Boerne
    Sorry for the brevity, I’m travelling…will try to follow up tomorrow….


    … …My main worry is, this is not unique to my company. I may find out, no matter where I go, the mandate will be an issue. Guess I have a couple months to figure it out. Really sux!
    Rock and a hard place and, yes this may be a challenege for future work prospects. Depending on a lot of factors, independent consulting or other self-employment may be the best options.

    Make them fire you if it comes down to it...
    Terminations for misconduct (violating company policy, for example) makes one ineligible for unemployment benefits.

    I was thinking the same if my employer decides to mandate vaccination. But would it be better for me to quit vs being fired for not following company policy. You can't apply for unemployment if they fire you for not complying with policy. At least that is my understanding @toddnjoyce

    See above. Misconduct of any type. However, some
    companies may code termination in such a way that termination was not for misconduct to avoid other DoL fights. In a right to work state, it’s sometimes easier to document services no longer needed than misconduct, which generally needs a paper trial.

    I wonder if changing a policy while under contract would apply? I may face the same boat if Abbott capitulates.
    Depends on the contract stipulations. Ironically, the mechanism of Emergency Temp Standard being used is rarely used. Last time, I think, was around asbestos 40 yrs or so ago and that was overturned by the courts. That’s kind of irrelevant in that an employer has wide latitude over employment policy changes. Carefully review the contract for flexibility around these things.

    I don’t take the flu shot. Never have.
    You mentioned a memo, but if the policy has language for exemptions this may help your argument for an exemption. Of course, they may counter with ‘no shot = mask + weekly testing on your dime” and be within the law. Only you can decide where your line is. I’d carefully review benefit plans to see what things are not lost if vested and voluntarily separated vs terminated for misconduct.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    Rock and a hard place and, yes this may be a challenege for future work prospects. Depending on a lot of factors, independent consulting or other self-employment may be the best options.

    Terminations for misconduct (violating company policy, for example) makes one ineligible for unemployment benefits.



    See above. Misconduct of any type. However, some
    companies may code termination in such a way that termination was not for misconduct to avoid other DoL fights. In a right to work state, it’s sometimes easier to document services no longer needed than misconduct, which generally needs a paper trial.


    Depends on the contract stipulations. Ironically, the mechanism of Emergency Temp Standard being used is rarely used. Last time, I think, was around asbestos 40 yrs or so ago and that was overturned by the courts. That’s kind of irrelevant in that an employer has wide latitude over employment policy changes. Carefully review the contract for flexibility around these things.


    You mentioned a memo, but if the policy has language for exemptions this may help your argument for an exemption. Of course, they may counter with ‘no shot = mask + weekly testing on your dime” and be within the law. Only you can decide where your line is. I’d carefully review benefit plans to see what things are not lost if vested and voluntarily separated vs terminated for misconduct.
    Thanks Todd....
     

    rotor

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    Tough decision. 385 million doses given in U.S. so far. More than 1/2 of the U.S. I hate the mandate of a vaccine but everyone in my family wanted the vaccine and got it.
    If you are refusing it because it's a mandate I can understand. If you are refusing it because of risk I understand. Where will you and your family be in a year from now financially? Think long term. I know you are not a veteran because you would have been vaccinated to hell, usually double normal dose. The easy thing for you is that so many have gone before you getting vaccinated. Mine was January. The major risks would have shown by now. Long term risks say in 30 years I won't be here to tell you about.
    Wife saw her doctor last week. Said to get a booster as he has done and that the hospital is full of very sick unvaccinated Covid patients. I and my wife would be eligible for a booster. If you lose everything you worked for and find out that you were wrong it will be hard to live with. Who knows though, there is a small chance you are right about the health risks. Very small though.
     
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    easy rider

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    Touch decision. 385 million doses given in U.S. so far. More than 1/2 of the U.S. I hate the mandate of a vaccine but everyone in my family wanted the vaccine and got it.
    If you are refusing it because it's a mandate I can understand. If you are refusing it because of risk I understand. Where will you and your family be in a year from now financially? Think long term. I know you are not a veteran because you would have been vaccinated to hell, usually double normal dose. The easy thing for you is that so many have gone before you getting vaccinated. Mine was January. The major risks would have shown by now. Long term risks say in 30 years I won't be here to tell you about.
    Wife saw her doctor last week. Said to get a booster as he has done and that the hospital is full of very sick unvaccinated Covid patients. I and my wife would be eligible for a booster. If you lose everything you worked for and find out that you were wrong it will be hard to live with. Who knows though, there is a small chance you are right about the health risks. Very small though.
    There were also millions of idiots that voted for Biden, doesn't make me want to be like them either.
     
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