Dems reveal tax hike plan

[satx78247]

GeorgeandSuga,

EXACTLY SO.

yours, Darla & satx

 

[deemus]

I don't think they were gimmicks at all. The state sales tax deduction for those who didn't have state income tax was a help. It was based on income, then you could add sales tax to the table amount for large purchases including cars, boats, home remodels, etc. For Texans it was a nice additional deduction. My wealthy buddy who has two houses is going from a $50,000 deduction for taxes to $10,000. That result is an additional $15K in taxes he will have to pay in 18. I don't think that is marginal. Its a hit. My last car didn't cost that much.

I also think your 50% is way too high. The ones who don't pay much tax is more around 20%. And they qualify for earned income credit and other programs. But there is a massive amount of people who are no where near the 28% bracket, but who make too much for any kind of assistance.

Many of those are construction workers, many are dual income families, who were not so fortunate to have health insurance provided to them at their jobs. And, they can't afford to pay for it. Many are fairly uneducated, so they didn't understand the premium tax credit under Obamacare.

So when they thought they were getting a refund to buy their kids clothes, or repair their home, or take a vacation, they are suddenly hit by a Obamacare penalty. So a penalty of $2500 for a guy would made $50,000 is equal to 5% of his income. That's a huge chunk for that income level. The working poor and lower middle got hit the hardest by Obamacare. The wealthy paid more, but they could afford it. The working poor and lower MC had to change their lifestyles to pay for that 5% increase in tax/penalty.

 

[Texas42]

Yeah, but that's all.

The vast majority only use the standard deduction.

 

[deemus]

The vast majority only use the standard deduction.

Did you find some stats ? I was looking yesterday but didn't see it.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

The vast majority only use the standard deduction.

I figured the vast majority had kids and/or mortgages, of which I've never had either.

 

[satx78247]

ZX9RCAM,

You are 100% CORRECT. - Well over HALF of taxpayers take the standard deduction, according to the IRS.

yours, satx

 

[deemus]

ZX9RCAM,

You are 100% CORRECT. - Well over HALF of taxpayers take the standard deduction, according to the IRS.

yours, satx

They get almost doubled in 18. Married joint goes to $24,000 and Single goes to $13,000. Head of Household goes to $18,000.

 

[AustinN4]

They get almost doubled in 18. Married joint goes to $24,000 and Single goes to $13,000. Head of Household goes to $18,000.

Single goes to $12,000.

 

[GeorgeandSugar]

I don't think they were gimmicks at all. The state sales tax deduction for those who didn't have state income tax was a help. It was based on income, then you could add sales tax to the table amount for large purchases including cars, boats, home remodels, etc. For Texans it was a nice additional deduction. My wealthy buddy who has two houses is going from a $50,000 deduction for taxes to $10,000. That result is an additional $15K in taxes he will have to pay in 18. I don't think that is marginal. Its a hit. My last car didn't cost that much.

I also think your 50% is way too high. The ones who don't pay much tax is more around 20%. And they qualify for earned income credit and other programs. But there is a massive amount of people who are no where near the 28% bracket, but who make too much for any kind of assistance.

Many of those are construction workers, many are dual income families, who were not so fortunate to have health insurance provided to them at their jobs. And, they can't afford to pay for it. Many are fairly uneducated, so they didn't understand the premium tax credit under Obamacare.

So when they thought they were getting a refund to buy their kids clothes, or repair their home, or take a vacation, they are suddenly hit by a Obamacare penalty. So a penalty of $2500 for a guy would made $50,000 is equal to 5% of his income. That's a huge chunk for that income level. The working poor and lower middle got hit the hardest by Obamacare. The wealthy paid more, but they could afford it. The working poor and lower MC had to change their lifestyles to pay for that 5% increase in tax/penalty.

Additional reading material. When you consider and look at tax policy, flattening and broaden the tax base with few or no deductions at all is IMHO better. The idea is to encourage work and incentivize more work and earnings. Too much of our tax code is geared to tax avoidance and shelters that are not productive. The corporate tax reduction will bring money back into the economy and put to “productive” use. Sitting in an off-shore account is not productive.

I think it is immoral to suggest, because you have done well in life, that you own something to the government or another person. Government has no business penalizing achievement and hard work. Allow people to keep more and allow them to decide where that extra disposal income ought to be used. Government wastes too much tax money on misguided and inefficient programs. Who thinks they don’t pay enough in federal taxes?

I don’t look at someone who has done better than me and suggest, you ought to pay more in taxes. I could have done the same thing. However, working 60-80 hrs a week for more money? No thanks. I have a life and if I fall short of what I need to survive then I’ll work harder, get a better job or cut back.

There are trade-offs in life, as well as choices and consequences. Having this discussion and explaining this would probably go a long way in saving these people before they made these poor choices and decisions in life. I disagree with having to be penalized, because my choices in life were better and some how I have to pay for others bad choices and mistakes.

Plenty of civic groups, religious organizations and other for and not-for-profit groups that can step in and fill the gap and help people in our society who are lacking. I do my part in charitable contributions and could do more if not for the tax burden.

Life is not fair and you can’t make it fairer, by greater government involvement in our lives or through disincentives by way of the tax code. Demonizing success, wealth creation or tax the rich are simply wrong and counterproductive.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltwa...ow-many-households-pay-no-federal-income-tax/

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/closer-look-those-who-pay-no-income-or-payroll-taxes


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[bowserb]

Notice that once again, what you do not see is as important as what you do. The Democrats are not proposing Estate Tax increases or even suggesting a reversal of the Estate Tax cuts of Bush and Trump (neither of which the Democrats opposed!) Why? Because 75% of the congress is either benefiting or have heirs benefiting from the estate tax cuts. Pre Bush, the estate tax affected estates over $1 million ($2 million for couples.) Bush increased the exemption to $5.6 million (11.2 million for couples). The Trump law doubled the exemption again to $11.2 million or $22.4 million for couples. Again, this is a benefit to 75% of our congress. Anyone still think our congressmen and senators work for us?

 

[avvidclif]

Actually everyone is overlooking one thing in the hoopla about the standard deduction going up. The individual deduction went away.
In my case Married filing jointly: Standard deduction $12,700, individual $4050x2= $8100. Total deducts $20,800. Under 2018 Standard deduction is $24,000 with no individual. I actually gained $3200 in deductions but that a long way from what most see as a almost doubling.

Uncle Sam giveth away with one hand and taketh away with the other. Fortunately in this case the giveth hand is bigger.

 

[bowserb]

Actually everyone is overlooking one thing in the hoopla about the standard deduction going up. The individual deduction went away.
In my case Married filing jointly: Standard deduction $12,700, individual $4050x2= $8100. Total deducts $20,800. Under 2018 Standard deduction is $24,000 with no individual. I actually gained $3200 in deductions but that a long way from what most see as a almost doubling.

Uncle Sam giveth away with one hand and taketh away with the other. Fortunately in this case the giveth hand is bigger.

And...if you had one dependent child, I think you'd lose, right?

 

[AustinN4]

Notice that once again, what you do not see is as important as what you do. The Democrats are not proposing Estate Tax increases or even suggesting a reversal of the Estate Tax cuts of Bush and Trump (neither of which the Democrats opposed!) Why? Because 75% of the congress is either benefiting or have heirs benefiting from the estate tax cuts. Pre Bush, the estate tax affected estates over $1 million ($2 million for couples.) Bush increased the exemption to $5.6 million (11.2 million for couples). The Trump law doubled the exemption again to $11.2 million or $22.4 million for couples. Again, this is a benefit to 75% of our congress. Anyone still think our congressmen and senators work for us?

And it also benefits lots more small business owners, including family farms, whose collective numbers greatly exceed those in congress, that might otherwise have to liquidate their businesses in order to pay the estate tax. It doesn't affect me (LOL) but I am all for it.

 

[deemus]

The biggest plus is lower tax brackets. All the brackets have a little more income in them. Should result in everyone paying less tax overall.

 

[satx78247]

To All,

ImVho, ONE thing that should be PERMANENTLY prohibited by federal law is any tax that causes family farms to have to be sold to pay estate or property taxes of any sort.
(Some parts of our extended family have been in TX since 1822 & some of those farms date from that time when the Spanish royal government gave those acres to our ancestors.)

During Reconstruction & The Great Depression several farms in our family were seized & sold for taxes to out of Texas people/corporations because the family didn't have the hard cash to pay the INFLATED taxes, that had been accessed.

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

To All,

The 200 acre farm that my kid sister, her 2 kids & I own jointly has been accessed for taxes at a little less than 5X it's fair market value. = We have been "in a running battle with" the ISD for over 15 years over the ISD's GREED.

I once asked the superintendent of the ISD if the school district would be willing to write us a check for the amount that their tax assessor CLAIMS that the farm is worth. = He said, "Absolutely not, as the property is not worth anywhere near that much money."

yours, satx