Direct impingement v. Gas piston

[robocop10mm]

IMHO if you want a piston gun get one that was designed that way. Sir Eugene Stoner designed the AR-18 and 63A as piston guns. Get an AK, SKS, Valmet, Galil, FNC, Robinson Arms M-96/XCR, Beretta AR 70/90, HK 93, etc.

 

[ftw13]

theres a reason no one else uses a similar system,just saying

 

[smschulz]

IMHO if you want a piston gun get one that was designed that way.

Doesn't mean that it can't be improved.
If you don't like it ~ so be it.
There are plenty of good points for and against.
FWIW...pistons will eventually take over at some point, IMO.
It's only a matter of time.

 

[ftw13]

HK416,thats why SOCOM are outfitting SOPMOD M4s with them....cause pistons suck. I think the XM8 is awesome if a bit "starship troopers" looking.
I also love the XCR i think it has massive potential and still has the modularity thats great about the AR platform. the SCAR and ACR got screwed being so expensive.....still not clear on how a rifle that is mostly polymer is so damned pricey.

 

[M. Sage]

HK416,thats why SOCOM are outfitting SOPMOD M4s with them....cause pistons suck. I think the XM8 is awesome if a bit "starship troopers" looking.
I also love the XCR i think it has massive potential and still has the modularity thats great about the AR platform. the SCAR and ACR got screwed being so expensive.....still not clear on how a rifle that is mostly polymer is so damned pricey.

A: A lot of stuff gets shoved down SOCOM's throat, and the guys in charge who do it seem to be total HK fanboys. Remember that Mk. 23 pistol? It was an abortion from the start. The operators who were testing it hated it, mostly because of weight but also because it apparently handled like crap, especially with the LAM and suppressor installed.

B: The 416 and other piston-upper rifles have more of a place with special ops types than they do with normal grunts - suppressors and DI are not terribly friendly, but put an adjustable piston system on a rifle and you're ready to play. DI also doesn't like to be fired right out of the water. You have to drain the gas tube out or you're going to break the rifle when you fire. No problem there with piston rifles.

The XM-8 was dropped because that stupid body kit they put on it (it's basically just a G36) wasn't compatible with any of the stuff that's starting to be considered "must-have" rifle accessories by just about every grunt - stuff like the PAQ-4, Aimpoint or ACOG optics, front vertical grip, etc.

 

[ftw13]

i agree they should have just submitted a shortened and modified G36,a great rifle imho. i think grunts would benefit from a 416 piston system on their M4s as well....anything that makes the weapons more reliable and keeps our soldiers alive is worth while.

 

[M. Sage]

The G36 ain't all that. It seems like it'd be slightly better, maybe, but only slightly if at all.

The AR family isn't really that unreliable.

Oh, and I want to point out that other countries manufacture, use and love the M16 family of rifle. Most Western special ops units use it, even if the rest of their military doesn't.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I think many of us (including myself) are probably out of our lane discussing what scuba ninjas and the like currently use.

 

[M. Sage]

Some of it, maybe, but the rest, all you've gotta be is a fanboy.

 

[SC-Texas]

The HK 416 has a few problems and its not all the fanboys claim it is.

 

[M. Sage]

I'd be surprised it it was. What kills me is that so many people act like H&K invented the idea of a piston upper.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

What HK needs to do is stop being A-holes and start commercially selling the damn Mp5 here like everyone wants.

 

[Texas42]

I'd be surprised it it was. What kills me is that so many people act like H&K invented the idea of a piston upper.

. . . . I thought that was Al Gore.

 

[M. Sage]

. . . . I thought that was Al Gore.

H&K actually is kind of the gun world's Al Gore, now that you mention it.

 

[ftw13]

well at least HK didn't sell out to cohen :P no they didn't invent the piston upper but they make some of the finest weapons on the planet. i think the military would benefit from a piston conversion on existing rifles....a lot cheaper most likely than buying new rifles. You're right the AR family isn't completely unreliable but look at the testing they recently did,i believe the M4 had something like 8x the malfunctions....not good.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

H&K actually is kind of the gun world's Al Gore, now that you mention it.

The worst part is they do currently and have in the past made some pretty cool stuff.

Actually, it's my understanding that the SCAR won whichever SOCOM contract all of those guns were competing for, so it will supposedly start being fielded by them on a large scale now and is apparently already out there even if only in small numbers.

 

[SC-Texas]

I heard that the sCAR is also NOTthe perfect reifle.

 

[ftw13]

the SCAR has a nice buttstock though