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  • oldag

    TGT Addict
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    7   0   0
    Feb 19, 2015
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    “When has it ever become legal to shoot someone because they’re pulling off in your car?”

    When has it ever become legal to steal a car?

    Maybe if her concern for her brother had been properly channeled before he died, he might have been a law abiding citizen and still alive.
     

    TheEnglishman

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    Jun 20, 2016
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    Who knows, maybe the Fire LT has stopped someone from using his car in drive by shooting, or as a getaway car in a bank robbery, or prevented someone from being killed in a hit and run by a 17 year old car thief.
     

    Lunyfringe

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    Sep 22, 2017
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    I'm in no way condoning what the 17yo idiot did, but I also wouldn't shoot someone who was stealing my car unless someone's life was in danger... if he tries to run me over, for example. I also wouldn't leave it running with the keys in it when I wasn't.

    The insurance line is bovine scatology.. I only carry full coverage on one of my vehicles, I would get paid exactly dick by my insurance if the others were stolen.

    I just don't want the legal issues of deadly force vs property loss... would cost me more than the value of the vehicle just in retainer alone.
     

    AustinN4

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    Nov 27, 2013
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    From link: "He responded with a copy of the Illinois’ “use of force” statute, which says a person is justified in using force to defend his life or the life of another if they reasonably fear similar force against them is imminent."

    I don't see defense of property listed there. If you or I had done that shooting in Illinois, I'm willing to bet we would be in jail.

    Looks to me like the Good Ole Boy network protected their own, which makes sense seeing how corrupt Chicago is.
     
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    Bozz10mm

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    I probably would not have shot the thief. But I definitely would not have left my keys in the vehicle or left the engine running either. I believe it's illegal in Texas and may cause problems collecting on the insurance to boot.

    Yes, the thief shouldn't have tried to steal the vehicle, but the fireman shouldn't have left it idling. I'm sure he wouldn't leave his wallet on the hood with 20 or 30 thousand dollars in it.
     
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    Lunyfringe

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    Sep 22, 2017
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    1 crime had already been committed. This shooting could've prevented further crime. If someone steals a gun from my house and starts to run away, am I justified in shooting them even though they aren't pointing the gun at me and my life is not in any danger?
    IANAL, nor do I play a lawyer on TV... seek legal council.

    But I can quote Texas statutes:
    Texas Penal Code (2017)

    Chapter 9. Justifications Excluding Criminal Responsibility

    SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

    Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

    A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

    (A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

    (3) he reasonably believes that:

    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


    Since it also refers to 9.41:
    Texas Penal Code (2011)

    Chapter 9. Justifications Excluding Criminal Responsibility

    SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

    Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE’S OWN PROPERTY.

    (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

    (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

    (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or

    (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
     

    majormadmax

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    9   0   0
    Aug 27, 2009
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    San Antonio!
    I like how Janique Walker (notice the different last name from her brother) claims "her brother was found guilty by one man with a gun."

    No, her brother was guilty of stealing a car. He was brought to justice by a man with a gun.

    As for all those who are willing to hand over their property to thieves, that is exactly why we have such thefts.

    The individual who defended his property is why thieves think twice before stealing. Well, the smarter ones do.

    It is a person's legal right to protect their property, and Texas' penal code allows it. Actually, so does Illinois...

    Sec. 7-3. Use of force in defense of other property.

    (a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with either real property (other than a dwelling) or personal property, lawfully in his possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his immediate family or household or of a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    (Source: P.A. 93-832, eff. 7-28-04.)
     

    busykngt

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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Fortunately Texas laws are considerably stronger when it comes to protecting property (especially during night hours). In this situation, appears a case could be made, the bg was using the vehicle as a weapon.

    I’m in total agreement the vehicle owner did quite the idiotic thing by leaving his vehicle running... who does that sorta thing nowadays?
     

    majormadmax

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    Aug 27, 2009
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    And yes, it is illegal to leave the keys in your car in Texas...

    Section 545.404 of the Texas Transportation Code, Unattended Motor Vehicles, states that an driver may not leave the vehicle unattended without:

    (1) stopping the engine;
    (2) locking the ignition;
    (3) removing the key from the ignition;
    (4) setting the parking brake effectively; and
    (5) if standing on a grade, turning the front wheels to the curb or side of the highway.

    And if your vehicle is stolen with the keys in it, your insurance company can legally not cover the loss.
     

    Moonpie

    Omnipotent Potentate for hire.
    Lifetime Member
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    21   0   0
    Oct 4, 2013
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    Gunz are icky.
    Don't care.

    All thieves should die.

    Back when everybody had a horse to commute around on they dealt with transportation thieves very effectively.
    No different today.
    I put a lot of hours of my life into owning that vehicle and it would greatly disrupt my life to lose it.
    Good shoot Mr.Fireman. May the Force be with you.
     

    Pops1955

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    Mar 10, 2015
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    I was taught "don't do stupid stuff". Lots of "stupid stuff" going on in this story BUT at the end of the day the stupid LT is alive and NOT in jail and the stupid-er perp is not alive and in a grave.
     
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