Electric rates just went up

[billtool]

Yep. I pay $.13 through Frontier.

 

[TXAZ]

If you can afford to do solar or wind (if you’re in good areas) the payback is about 6-9 years.

 

[Vaquero]

My last bill was around $0.13 per kwh.

You ain't in the boonies.

 

[striker55]

Yep. I pay $.13 through Frontier.

.12 from Texas Energy but the extra fees are constant.

 

[oldag]

In the '40s and '50s electricity in the boonies was about $0.08 per kwh. Now it's around $0.18. Compare that to anything else that's nearly that important.

$0.08 in 1940 is $1.75 in 2023 dollars. So only increasing to $0.18 is pretty dang good. The cost of electricity has gone up a huge amount less than inflation.

You could buy a Coke for a nickel in 1940...

 

[oldag]

If you can afford to do solar or wind (if you’re in good areas) the payback is about 6-9 years.

Solar payback in 6-9 years?? Only with the taxpayer funded subsidies.

 

[dsgrey]

Current rate is .119802. But I can't change my provider, CoServ has a large swath north of Dallas where you have no choice.

 

[OutlawStar]

Solar payback in 6-9 years?? Only with the taxpayer funded subsidies.

I forget who I heard it from but someone pointed out if you take ~$45,000 and invest it into some sort of index fund to earn the market average of 10%, after 6-9 years how much money will you have? Then compare it after that 6-9 period and how much money does it give every year versus how much your solar panels are saving. I think the clip pointing it out said you'd be making more money with that $45k of cash (approximate cost of a solar setup) than solar can "save". Plus after ~20 years when those solar panels start going bad and need replacement your initial investment is still growing instead of facing replacement of panels for another $45k expenditure.

Someone else would have to do the math to verify if thats correct, and maybe outline the full cost of installing solar panels on an average sized house. The idiots view (me) is if those panels pay for themselves after 9 years, the next 9 years essentially pays for the next round of solar panels needing replacement after 18 years. But investing is a whole new level of generating money too.

Basically if these things are just paying for themselves whats the point? Just like those dumb windmills that only last 6-12 years before they need replacement. They cost millions of dollars to manufacture, erect, assemble, and generate power. Are they making more money than what they cost? A lot of people point out they don't without government subsidies. I think theres a term for that.

 

[TheDan]

I forget who I heard it from but someone pointed out if you take ~$45,000 and invest it into some sort of index fund to earn the market average of 10%, after 6-9 years how much money will you have? Then compare it after that 6-9 period and how much money does it give every year versus how much your solar panels are saving. I think the clip pointing it out said you'd be making more money with that $45k of cash (approximate cost of a solar setup) than solar can "save". Plus after ~20 years when those solar panels start going bad and need replacement your initial investment is still growing instead of facing replacement of panels for another $45k expenditure.

Someone else would have to do the math to verify if thats correct, and maybe outline the full cost of installing solar panels on an average sized house. The idiots view (me) is if those panels pay for themselves after 9 years, the next 9 years essentially pays for the next round of solar panels needing replacement after 18 years. But investing is a whole new level of generating money too.

Basically if these things are just paying for themselves whats the point? Just like those dumb windmills that only last 6-12 years before they need replacement. They cost millions of dollars to manufacture, erect, assemble, and generate power. Are they making more money than what they cost? A lot of people point out they don't without government subsidies. I think theres a term for that.

Same goes for the cost analysis of owning a home vs renting and investing. What that doesn't consider is the third party risk of owning a derivative vs owning something tangible.

An index fund won't keep your lights on when the power goes out.

 

[OutlawStar]

Same goes for the cost analysis of owning a home vs renting and investing. What that doesn't consider is the third party risk of owning a derivative vs owning something tangible.

An index fund won't keep your lights on when the power goes out.

Very true, again I'm not leaning one or the other but it would be an interesting math experiment. However I'd disagree with you that it doesn't go into the cost of owning a house because the solar panels are essentially a depreciating asset that must be replaced after (i'm told) 20 or so years. The house needs maintenance however generally increases in price plus I live in it. And if the power goes out at night or a storm those solar panels aren't keeping the lights on either.

Just got the e-bill: 2nd month in a row a $280 power bill. Hopefully after this 100+ heat is done I'll see my power bill drop like a rock. $600 on 2 months of airconditioner use isn't what I'm calling a good time.

 

[TheDan]

And if the power goes out at night or a storm those solar panels aren't keeping the lights on either.

Yeah a solar system without storage doesn't do you much good

 

[Steve In Texas]

If you are just worried about backup power, buy an LP generator and get a big tank. That costs a fraction of any meaningful solar installation.

Maybe soon there will rates where your bill gets a big discount if you turn grid power off for selected hours between 15:00 and 20:00. You get to test the backup system regularly and save money in the right situations. Then invest the rest and your financials look better.

Environmental footprints are open to much philosophical belief so including that in analysis is challenging.

 

[Tnhawk]

If you are just worried about backup power, buy an LP generator and get a big tank. That costs a fraction of any meaningful solar installation.

Maybe soon there will rates where your bill gets a big discount if you turn grid power off for selected hours between 15:00 and 20:00. You get to test the backup system regularly and save money in the right situations. Then invest the rest and your financials look better.

Environmental footprints are open to much philosophical belief so including that in analysis is challenging.

A generator provides my requirement for backup power without demanding a large investment. When I relocated to my present home I moved it to the new home. A solar system doesn't offer that option.

 

[gll]

Very true, again I'm not leaning one or the other but it would be an interesting math experiment. However I'd disagree with you that it doesn't go into the cost of owning a house because the solar panels are essentially a depreciating asset that must be replaced after (i'm told) 20 or so years. The house needs maintenance however generally increases in price plus I live in it. And if the power goes out at night or a storm those solar panels aren't keeping the lights on either.

Just got the e-bill: 2nd month in a row a $280 power bill. Hopefully after this 100+ heat is done I'll see my power bill drop like a rock. $600 on 2 months of airconditioner use isn't what I'm calling a good time.

Obvously, any off-grid system is going to be battery based, and there are solar direct applications for solar that don't require batteries, such as for well pumping.

A few grid-tied systems, like the Sunny Boy, will produce usable 120v power during the day time, without a battery backup. But, any system without battery backup has limited utility.

My Bandera Electric Co-op hasn't raised prices in 10 years, but did increase rates in August. Really, the increase seems very moderate compared to the inflation in other sectors. The only increases were in availabily and distribution charges.

Rate Schedule	Old Availability	New Availability	Difference			Old Distribution	New Distribution	Old Energy	New Energy
General Service Single Phase	$25.00	$30.00	$5.00			0.021358	0.032080	0.067075	0.066706