Event Safety.

[Dcav]

So after the past 2 meets today and yesterday. Safety is definitely a concern. From people handling guns, or even being up on the firing line when the line is cold, to handling weapons during cold range time as well. Lets discuss ideas options.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

First, everyone should read this, all designated RSO's should understand and enforce it, and all participants should be made aware that they need to be on the lookout for violations too, and speak up immediately if they see one:

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/training-competition/19053-shooting-range-incompetence.html

Start out at the very beginning of the range day by gathering everyone and having a safety briefing, admin briefing, etc and bring up all these topics so EVERYONE is on the same page and knows what's going on. Being organized is the only way to do this.

To be entirely honest, at all of the forum events and local events I have been too, I have often felt a little uneasy about the vast majority of participating shooters I have been around as far as safety, and this includes many people here on this forum (no names). Quite literally, so far the only people I've shot with that I trust unequivocally with a loaded gun around me are myself, Texas1911, Chickenwing, and maybe one or two seasoned scuba ninjas I know through work. This says a lot. We need to constantly be reinforcing safety.

Also, egos need to be discussed. It should be made clear to everyone that egos leave "at the door". Anyone calling a safety violation is to be taken seriously, and whoever is responsible should acknowledge they understand the mistake and then work to correct it. There is no need for an ego. Just man up, admit when each of us is wrong, correct the mistake and move on. We all make mistakes. What should not be tolerated is someone arguing when they were called on a safety violation. I can't tell you how many times I've had people argue with me when they nearly killed someone, yet the only thing they want to do is whine about how they know better because they're "twice my age", or that it's not a big deal because "they've been doing this longer". 5 pounds of pressure and a muzzle pointed a few degrees the wrong direction is all it takes to KILL someone's child, sibling, spouse, etc. Man up or shut the F up, plain and simple.

We're going to be putting up a bunch of training videos and articles in the "Learn To Shoot" section over the next several weeks and months. Much of this is going to center on firearms safety, how to be safe, etc. I think this section is going to prove to be a valuable resource in reinforcing these topics, as it will be something simple for us all to show new shooters. In addition the videos will give them some great visuals to start getting a feel for things and possibly get them more in the mindset before actually doing anything.

 

[Dcav]

Good info Travis. One of this forums members came out and between horrible gun safety with kids and bad weapons malfunctions (glock mag exploded, some type of round failure, no injuries luckily.) I didnt walk over to see what happened. I like the safety briefing only problem is people show up randomly timewise. Suggestions?

 

[San Antone RR]

I like the safety briefing only problem is people show up randomly timewise. Suggestions?

A safety sheet that all attending members need to read and sign?

 

[Dcav]

A safety sheet that all attending members need to read and sign?

Not a bad idea at all.

 

[codygjohnson]

A safety sheet that all attending members need to read and sign?

I like this idea. I think it would be really helpful if we could come up with and all had access to a universal safety sheet, and some waivers/releases that we could use for these events. It's not that hard to see getting sued over someone shooting someone else and the more paperwork we've got, the better.

 

[San Antone RR]

I will throw something together and post it up here tomorrow for all to see/critique/edit. Maybe have it standardized for all TGT range days.

 

[M. Sage]

Safety sheet is a good idea, and I hate to say it but some of us might have to volunteer to be RSOs on ranges like Bexar.

 

[San Antone RR]

Safety sheet is a good idea, and I hate to say it but some of us might have to volunteer to be RSOs on ranges like Bexar.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind doing it.

 

[M. Sage]

Agreed. I wouldn't mind doing it.

I'll take the hit if someone spells me so I can get some BBQ and punch some holes.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Also, in general using the example of firearm training classes, it's usually rule of thumb to try and not have more than 5 shooters per RSO, ideally only 2-3/RSO if possible, especially with new and inexperienced shooters. Keeping that in mind, especially if 20-30+ people show up to an event, that is a TON of stuff to keep track of. Ideally if there are 20-30 attendees there should be a good 4-8 people competent enough to act as RSO's and keep an eye on things. One thing that may be helpful is, when planning an event, request people to help RSO the event. All those that respond, have them show up maybe 15-30min early and get on the same page so there is no confusion later on.

 

[M. Sage]

That's not a bad idea.

Would probably be a good idea to coordinate this with the staff of respective ranges before hand. I also picked up the idea of a medical brief somewhere, and like the idea. If we're going all-out on safety, would having a prepared response to a "whoops" be such a bad idea, too? It only means a little more work IMO.

 

[Dcav]

I agree with the medical aspect as well. We bring out a trauma bag and a smaller first aid kit to our meets.

 

[Texas1911]

The problem with safety waivers, medical how-to, etc. is that none of us are doctors, and honestly, it implies some sort of service. In the long run this opens you up to law suits, and trust me ... if someone gets shot, you can expect a couple million dollar lawsuit.

Forms that have listed rules, that's not going to work, we'll just have to address them as we go. A good shooters pow-wow and explanation of the rules and what we expect from people is good. Having the authority to throw out our own members would be a good secondary.

Me and Travis have years of experience in dealing with these things. I'm not bashful about getting involved if someone is being unsafe, even if I don't know them.

 

[Dcav]

Also good points Alan

 

[M. Sage]

Very good points. I'm also not shy about telling someone that what they're doing is unsafe.

I'm not saying we should "play doctor" (All I know is how to spot arterial bleeding and to apply direct pressure anyway). But my idea is to simply have a procedure in place (or know what the range's procedure is) in case something happens. Who calls 911? Do they know the address? Do they know what to say to the operator to get the right kind of response? Something similar to the Army's 9 Line is what I've got in mind.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

One rule I like about the range I work is, if you muzzle sweep anyone with a loaded gun, you are done for the day, period. No multiple chances, you are gone. I think that really reinforces how serious the situation is, as opposed to letting someone off with a warning and saying that's their first chance. If it's an unloaded gun and they are a bit too casual and coming close to sweeping people, then yeah give them a warning and let them know how serious it is.

 

[M. Sage]

Some of this is going to be dependent on the range we're shooting on. However...

If we want to continue to have shoots like this, we need to make sure that the local ranges are our friends. We need to hold our group to high standards if we want this to continue.

 

[fm2]

One idea is to have a designated area for admin. gun handling. Then if people want to "show & tell" they have a designated place to do that while keeping th muzzle pointed downrange.