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  • deemus

    my mama says I'm special
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    If a bill of sale is a problem or, as someone suggested, they demand to see my bill of sale, then there is always a legal transfer via a 4473 through a dealer. That way, both parties are covered.

    What I do not understand is why people attack or denigrate those who do want a bill of sale or a transfer. We, as firearm owners, are already under attack and I wonder why we are not able to respect each other over this.


    There are actual court cases where a person executed a bill of sale. Buyer used the gun in a crime. Bill of sale came into play that proved sale of the gun to a felon. Which turned the seller into a felon since he sold the gun to a felon.
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    rmantoo

    Cranky old fart: Pull my finger
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    There are actual court cases where a person executed a bill of sale. Buyer used the gun in a crime. Bill of sale came into play that proved sale of the gun to a felon. Which turned the seller into a felon since he sold the gun to a felon.

    I've googled and googled - spent about 20 minutes googling- and cannot find anything more than "free bill of sale for the state of X"

    Can you point me in the direction to find that?
    thanks
    Robert
     

    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Little Elm

    rotor

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    I've googled and googled - spent about 20 minutes googling- and cannot find anything more than "free bill of sale for the state of X"

    Can you point me in the direction to find that?
    thanks
    Robert
    There will I guess be a lot more posts. How would a BOS prove a gun was sold to a felon? Are you a felon, the yes box is checked?
     

    Charlie

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    'Top of the hill, Kerr County!
    I'll chime in with my own thoughts on a bill of sale.

    A BOS is meaning less unless one has a Notary witness the signatures as being the people signing the BOS.
    A BOS provides no proof the item (gun) is stolen or if either party knows it's stolen.
    A BOS provides no implied warranty, etc.
    A BOS provides no information that indicates the seller is the owner of the firearm.
    A BOS does not prove the person selling or buying is a citizen of the state.
    Etc., Etc.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    The Woodlands, Tx.
    There will I guess be a lot more posts. How would a BOS prove a gun was sold to a felon? Are you a felon, the yes box is checked?

    I'm confused.
    If you sold a gun to an individual who is a felon, and you didn't know it.
    You both exchanged your BOS, and there you go.
    Later, he is arrested with the gun, and BOS proving that you sold it to him.
    Wouldn't that be how?
     

    Sasquatch

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    I'm confused.
    If you sold a gun to an individual who is a felon, and you didn't know it.
    You both exchanged your BOS, and there you go.
    Later, he is arrested with the gun, and BOS proving that you sold it to him.
    Wouldn't that be how?

    Yes, you sold a gun to a felon in that case, but unless he says "hey, I'm a felon" or they can prove that you had reason to believe he was a felon, there's no case against the seller. Until UBC is required for all sales (which means transactions will go thru FFL's like they do on the left coast now) unless the buyer tells you he's a felon, or the seller tells you the gun is stolen, you as the seller of a gun or the buyer of the gun don't have reason to believe nefarious activity is in play.
     

    Charlie

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    'Top of the hill, Kerr County!
    Let's say you put your gun up for sale on the forum and you get a buyer. You guys meet, he flashes a TDL to "indicate" he is a Texas resident (and you do also) but he doesn't want to give you a lot of info (anymore that maybe you also don't want to provide a lot of personal info). Everything could be a lie on the BOS but he did flash a Tex DL. I personally would NOT let a potential buyer, seller view my personal details on my DL. By having flashed a Texas DL showing his picture (not info) I would feel comfortable in saying I had no reason to believe he was not a Texas resident.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    Yes, you sold a gun to a felon in that case, but unless he says "hey, I'm a felon" or they can prove that you had reason to believe he was a felon, there's no case against the seller. Until UBC is required for all sales (which means transactions will go thru FFL's like they do on the left coast now) unless the buyer tells you he's a felon, or the seller tells you the gun is stolen, you as the seller of a gun or the buyer of the gun don't have reason to believe nefarious activity is in play.

    I was merely trying to answer his question.
    I don't believe anything I said was incorrect.
    I even stated not knowing
     

    Charlie

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    'Top of the hill, Kerr County!
    A gun transaction between individuals may sound OK but without knowing each other or going through an FFL, can be very risky.
    I've often wondered how many felons or folks that for some reason cannot own a gun, are walking around on a Saturday morning at a gun show? An older average looking citizen "could" be a felon because of a mistake he/she made 30 years ago and now be an upstanding citizen. That does not make the transaction legal.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Dec 15, 2019
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    A gun transaction between individuals may sound OK but without knowing each other or going through an FFL, can be very risky.
    I've often wondered how many felons or folks that for some reason cannot own a gun, are walking around on a Saturday morning at a gun show? An older average looking citizen "could" be a felon because of a mistake he/she made 30 years ago and now be an upstanding citizen. That does not make the transaction legal.

    And until the laws are changed, it's the law. The amount of time having passed and the person may have totally turned their life around, or just made some foolish mistake when they were younger, but it doesn't change the facts of that person in the eyes of the law is a felon, and therefor prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm.
     
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