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  • echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    Hi Gunners,

    I've been searching data on a shotgun. We have found some news paper articles of events from the time period.
    It's a Commemorative 1945 Winchester Model 12 Trap, presented to Greg "Pappy" Boyington, with a medallion of the presentation date and location in the butt stock.
    I'd like to find out if it was a one of, or a series, and value.

    Thanks for any help, PAX

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    Guns International
     

    Texasjack

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    Sort of related - I talked to a guy whose father was a mechanic serving under Boyington. At one point, there was some worry about Jap sappers sneaking up to the aircraft at night and destroying them, so they had guys out amongst the planes standing guard. This mechanic got tired and so he sat down on a large wood box that was near Pappy's plane. He hadn't been there long when Boyington showed up. The poor kid apologized for sitting down and figured he was about to get in big trouble. Boyington said, "Go ahead and sit, but guard that box with your life. I've got my booze in there."
     

    echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    In my "professional" opinion I would say the value is "a lot". :green:

    I became a big fan of Greg "Pappy" Boyington after very much enjoying watching the TV series Black Sheep Squadron. He was a true man among men.

    When I was in video production, I shot a bunch of air shows from Bakersfield to Reno. At Madera there were some WWII aces book signing, among them was Pappy. I asked him if he'd mind being interviewed, he was pretty salty about it until I started asking him abut his time with the Flying Tigers. He loosened up a bit then. There was also the last Jap ace, and the last F4F Naval ace. PAX
     
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    HKSig

    Let's Go Brandon!
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    Probably from his war bonds sales tour. It might have been mentioned in his book, but it has been a long time since I've read it.
     

    satx78247

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    Hi Gunners,

    I've been searching data on a shotgun. We have found some news paper articles of events from the time period.
    It's a Commemorative 1945 Winchester Model 12 Trap, presented to Greg "Pappy" Boyington, with a medallion of the presentation date and location in the butt stock.
    I'd like to find out if it was a one of, or a series, and value.

    Thanks for any help, PAX

    R6NpOktl.jpg


    wNsb86bl.jpg


    X0NXaujl.jpg




    echo1,

    To paraphrase a famous comment from a "robber baron" from the 19th Century: If you have to ask how much it costs, you cannot afford it.

    IF that shotgun is the "real deal", I would GUESS in the mid-6 figures IF it could be bought at all.

    Long ago, before Baylor Hospital Oncology Center got everything that I had, I tried for over two years to buy a pistol that belonged to MG A.P. "RED SHIRT" Hill. = I finally gave up the effort, as i came to the conclusion that the family was NOT actually interested in selling the old Colt at ANY PRICE.

    I found out about 3 years ago that the 1860 Colt was finally transferred to the VA State Museum, in return for "an unspecified amount of money".
    ("A GOODLY PILE of BENJAMINS" is my GUESS as to the "unspecified" amount of money.)

    I've never known how to price a "COLLECTABLE" that is "one of one".

    yours, satx
     
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    echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    satx78247 ,

    This weapon is already in our possession and we're trying to establish exactly where and when it was presented to Boyington. The owner bought it at an estate sale in Pocatello 35 years ago. We're fairly certain it was given to him at the banquet after the Okanogan parade. The location on the butt isn't where you would normally encounter a "knock off", and nothing like it has ever surfaced. It's been a long time and most folks that may have been present have passed. Somewhere there's a picture of it being given to him. It would have been a REAL big deal back then. PAX
     

    toddnjoyce

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    ...It's a Commemorative 1945 Winchester Model 12 Trap, presented to Greg "Pappy" Boyington...

    Folks on half a dozen or more forums have answered your plea with the suggestion to get a Cody letter and search archives in Okanogan, and at least one gave you a link to those online archives.

    Have you done any of that yet, because I’m willing to bet a dollar to a donut that among all the really smart people we have here none will no jack shît about the answer which you seek.
     

    echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    We ain't got nuthin (other than the medallion), hence the research regarding his appearances in Washington at that time. The owner, one of our hanger bums (bumette actually), happen to show it to me in August, and I started the research ball rolling. She has owned it for 35 years, so if somebody bogused it up, it was done long ago. When she got it, it was sold as just a shot gun, no mention of a Boyington connection.
    We've found a couple news articles from UWS microfiche files, and a Calgunner sent me this:
    And a quick google search yielded this: https://www.historylink.org/File/10798 Excerpt: “ On September 17 Seattle was one of the stops and had a welcome home at its Victory Square. A band performed and the distinguished speakers included Governor Monrad "Mon" Wallgren (1891-1961). Following the Seattle event, Major Boyington headed to the small community of Brewster, in Okanogan County, where his family was living. Two hundred school children lined the street to greet the hero. Later a parade was held in Okanogan, where 15,000, many times the town population, cheered the hero.”

    Also this: https://issuu.com/omakchronicle/docs...he_okanogan/45
    Which adds details to the celebration mentioned above.

    While none of this specifically mentions the presentation of a shotgun (or anything else) it might make sense the community would honor an “adopted” native son.

    Or it could be that someone in the community, at a later date, created and affixed the plaque to the shotgun in order to both honor Boyington and commemorate the event and that Boyington never had any actual contact with the weapon.

    We're PRESUMING that the shotgun was given at the evening's banquet. We're in the process of trying to contact surviving relatives or event organizers for any photos, documents or recollections.

    Regardless, it's looking like it's the real deal. PAX​
     

    echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    No, it's annoying.
    It's cut and pasted from a similar posting I have on Calguns. It changes whenever I copy an edited post of mine.
    For expedience I just leave it. PAX
     

    satx78247

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    satx78247 ,

    This weapon is already in our possession and we're trying to establish exactly where and when it was presented to Boyington. The owner bought it at an estate sale in Pocatello 35 years ago. We're fairly certain it was given to him at the banquet after the Okanogan parade. The location on the butt isn't where you would normally encounter a "knock off", and nothing like it has ever surfaced. It's been a long time and most folks that may have been present have passed. Somewhere there's a picture of it being given to him. It would have been a REAL big deal back then. PAX

    echo1,

    AND the ABSOLUTE PROOF that the shotgun actually was "Pappy" Boyington's PERSONAL PROPERTY is??

    ABSENT that DOCUMENTED PROOF, the shotgun is just a NICE pump shotgun.

    FWIW, before I got involved in the FAILED negotiation to buy Major General A. P. Hill's Model of 1860 COLT, I assured that it was HIS PERSONAL PROPERTY & was returned to his family, with his other personal effects, shortly after the end of TWBTS & after his death.
    (FYI, MG Hill was KIA the last day of TWBTS.)

    yours, satx
     

    echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    Again, there is no proof. We know provenance makes all the difference for selling and authentication, but as far as we're concerned it's the real deal, in possession for years as part of a larger collection, and no other individual guns have appeared with anything similar. Justly, as an observation, a faked disc normally would be flush in the butt stock, not exquisitely finished within a compound curve in a Monty Carlo type stock. Really would be cool to locate the Smith that crafted it. Fakery wasn't as rampant back then (1945) and that part of the country had mostly honest folks in those days.
    The gun's owner has letters/emails out to a half dozen historical societies, gunsmiths, & news papers, but time is our enemy. We've got 2 different news accounts of Pappy being there in that time frame, but nothing of the shotgun. Most data we have we got within the 1st week of research, it's going on 2 years now, and were afraid those that might have known, may not be with us any longer. I'm sure it was a gift given at a banquet or some such. There certainly would have been a pictures taken, at the ceremony honoring Boyington at the parades terminus. Anyway, that's why I've reached out to you guys, you never know where a lead might turn up. PAX
     

    satx78247

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    Again, there is no proof. We know provenance makes all the difference for selling and authentication, but as far as we're concerned it's the real deal, in possession for years as part of a larger collection, and no other individual guns have appeared with anything similar. Justly, as an observation, a faked disc normally would be flush in the butt stock, not exquisitely finished within a compound curve in a Monty Carlo type stock. Really would be cool to locate the Smith that crafted it. Fakery wasn't as rampant back then (1945) and that part of the country had mostly honest folks in those days.
    The gun's owner has letters/emails out to a half dozen historical societies, gunsmiths, & news papers, but time is our enemy. We've got 2 different news accounts of Pappy being there in that time frame, but nothing of the shotgun. Most data we have we got within the 1st week of research, it's going on 2 years now, and were afraid those that might have known, may not be with us any longer. I'm sure it was a gift given at a banquet or some such. There certainly would have been a pictures taken, at the ceremony honoring Boyington at the parades terminus. Anyway, that's why I've reached out to you guys, you never know where a lead might turn up. PAX

    echo1,

    I wish you the best of luck finding DOCUMENTARY PROOF of Boyington actually being presented the pump shotgun.

    ABSENT that PROOF it's just a NICE pump shotgun.

    Fyi, our family has been in the antique business since WWII ended, as my mother opened a shop in NETX & I grew up in "the business". = Over the decades, I've had a LARGE number of "might be", "could be" & even "probably were" artifacts of bygone days offered to me & other members of our family.

    There is a couple of sayings in the antique business that are both somewhat amusing & appropriate here:
    1. "The only person who cared what your grandmother had was your grandfather."
    and
    2. "If George Washington had really slept in as many bedrooms, as he is said to have done, it's no wonder that he is called, The Father of Our Country".

    yours, satx
     

    echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    satx , you're exactly the kind of people that could be helpful in researching this item. Someone with knowledge about such things, with actual experience. I have a similar thread in NWF, and was hoping to get a lead from there, but got most event info from the C&R fellas over on Calguns within the first week. Then Covid hit and there was a big fire in Okanogan. The medallion really hasn't meant anything to the owner, but it interest me. They could have done a little research 30 years ago, when it was more likely someone was around who remembered. PAX
     

    satx78247

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    satx , you're exactly the kind of people that could be helpful in researching this item. Someone with knowledge about such things, with actual experience. I have a similar thread in NWF, and was hoping to get a lead from there, but got most event info from the C&R fellas over on Calguns within the first week. Then Covid hit and there was a big fire in Okanogan. The medallion really hasn't meant anything to the owner, but it interest me. They could have done a little research 30 years ago, when it was more likely someone was around who remembered. PAX


    echo1,

    CHECK YOUR MAIL.

    yours, satx
     

    echo1

    "A free people should be armed and disciplined"
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    Feb 8, 2021
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    Folks on half a dozen or more forums have answered your plea with the suggestion to get a Cody letter and search archives in Okanogan, and at least one gave you a link to those online archives.

    Have you done any of that yet, because I’m willing to bet a dollar to a donut that among all the really smart people we have here none will no jack shît about the answer which you seek.

    Cody was one of the FIRST to be contacted, in August of last year prior to any suggestion to do such, but to no avail. Apparently it wasn't a Winchester factory built presentation piece.

    The news papers from Okanogan have long since gone tits up, but we retrieved articles on microfiche, commemorating the events Boyington was at after his returning state side and touring Washington. The various historical societies contacted are shuttered by Covid, or under staffed by youngsters. PAX

    It's a long stretch to try and find an old guy with any recollections of the presentation event, especially in Texas, but you never know what will turn up
     
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