FBI agent Convicted

[cazador1022]

Im pretty sure you all have heard the news reports. Is this just one more incentive to just stay with personal sales? I still dont know what he did illegaly. I understand he sold a rifle that ended up in Mexico but, he did sell it legaly to a another person who then had it and sold it to MX nationals. Am I missing something? Are we required to keep records of our personal firearms sales?

I dont think he could have gotten a fair trial here anyway.

 

[espnazi]

From how your describing it he did nothing wrong. As I understand it you don't even have to check for id.





Edit: Apparently he purchased 53 rifles and sold 51 one of them while claiming he wasn't in the business of selling firearms.

 

[majormadmax]

Nope, volcanic ash shutting down airports in Europe is all I am seeing. But a quick Google News search revealed...

FBI agent convicted in illegal gun sales case

EL PASO, Texas — A federal jury says a suspended El Paso FBI agent is guilty of selling guns without a permit and lying to federal agents about it.

John Thomas Shipley has been suspended from his job since last year. On Wednesday, jurors found him guilty of six counts, including importing or manufacturing firearms and dealing firearms without a license. He also was convicted of four counts of causing a firearm dealer to maintain false records and one count of making a false statement.

Shipley is set to be sentenced July 8. He was accused of acting as a gun dealer while trying to sell guns via an Internet site and buying 54 guns from 2005 to 2008 and illegally selling all but three of the weapons.

So it does appear he did do something illegal...

Cheers! M2

 

[cazador1022]

Is there a threshold? Like a magic number of guns sold per year/month ? Where we become dealers?

 

[nalioth]

Is there a threshold? Like a magic number of guns sold per year/month ? Where we become dealers?

The threshold is one if it can proven that you purchased it for resale/profit.

 

[Renegade]

Is there a threshold? Like a magic number of guns sold per year/month ? Where we become dealers?

No.

"Engaged in the Business" is not well defined.

The irony is if he applied for an FFL they probably would not have given it to him.

 

[Moss_Berg5150]

Not to mention you can't buy/import parts, manufacture guns in house then try to sell them as a personal weapons...

 

[cazador1022]

Thanks to all for clarification on this.

 

[randmplumbingllc]

Im pretty sure you all have heard the news reports. Is this just one more incentive to just stay with personal sales? I still dont know what he did illegaly. I understand he sold a rifle that ended up in Mexico but, he did sell it legaly to a another person who then had it and sold it to MX nationals. Am I missing something? Are we required to keep records of our personal firearms sales?

I dont think he could have gotten a fair trial here anyway.

What he did was piss off some other Federal LEO's . The BATFE and IRS, among others were after him. From what I understand, he just thought he was above the law and his s*%t didn't stink. Not a good attitude to have, especially with other LEO's I heard he made an extra 100K and didn't report it.

 

[rosie]

We all need to be afraid of the government and retaliation. This was a good agent. He stood up for an innocent Iranian woman a few years ago. He sold approx. 1 gun a month and by the rules.This was over a 3 year period. He had a tactical collection because he enjoyed that type of shooting. The ATF suggested that "no one collects that type of weapon." He never sold a gun to the cartel as the news professes. He sold it to a deputy sheriff then he sold it to another person that admitted to trafficking guns. He never knew the agent. So, if you sell your car to someone then they sell it and gets caught crossing drugs, are you in trouble? The trial was ridiculous, the prosecution put up a convicted felon that they knew was lying. A white person in El Paso never had a chance of a fair trial, especially with everything happening across the border. The 118,00 dollars that is referred to is the cost of selling all the guns, not including the cost of buying them. No profit there, actually proved to be a loss. He was also charged with causing an FFL to maintain false records. One of the guns he supposedly sold was taken from his home during the search warrant, it was a collector gun. So, then who was the buyer?? He was. Think about it...

 

[texas skeeter]

NAH, I believe Rosie on this one!! its seems to be just another case similar to the Border agents Ramos/Compian case!! just SHEER CONVICTING UNDER FALSE PRETENSES and more concerned with listening to and believing the criminal element rather than an OFFICER of the U.S.!! its a F--KING SHAME!!

 

[cazador1022]

We all need to be afraid of the government and retaliation. This was a good agent. He stood up for an innocent Iranian woman a few years ago. He sold approx. 1 gun a month and by the rules.This was over a 3 year period. He had a tactical collection because he enjoyed that type of shooting. The ATF suggested that "no one collects that type of weapon." He never sold a gun to the cartel as the news professes. He sold it to a deputy sheriff then he sold it to another person that admitted to trafficking guns. He never knew the agent. So, if you sell your car to someone then they sell it and gets caught crossing drugs, are you in trouble? The trial was ridiculous, the prosecution put up a convicted felon that they knew was lying. A white person in El Paso never had a chance of a fair trial, especially with everything happening across the border. The 118,00 dollars that is referred to is the cost of selling all the guns, not including the cost of buying them. No profit there, actually proved to be a loss. He was also charged with causing an FFL to maintain false records. One of the guns he supposedly sold was taken from his home during the search warrant, it was a collector gun. So, then who was the buyer?? He was. Think about it...

I can tbelieve that his attorneys could not make this point clear enough to the jury. Good point. SOmething to think about. Now we have to watch out for the bad guys and the "good" federal government guys.

 

[rosie]

NRA Link

Check out this link. NRA Video: Gun Collector Convicted For Illegal Arms Dealing

 

[Wolfwood]

NAH, I believe Rosie on this one!! its seems to be just another case similar to the Border agents Ramos/Compian case!! just SHEER CONVICTING UNDER FALSE PRETENSES and more concerned with listening to and believing the criminal element rather than an OFFICER of the U.S.!! its a F--KING SHAME!!

+1

besides the law they are enforcing, just liek the majority of federal laws (including federal income tax) only applies to D.C. residents and US territories and posessions.
not to state residents.
it is all a sham.

 

[Texas1911]

Guilty or not, this guy was never going to have a fair trial. The BATFE is rabid for railroading anyone they can on the whole guns going into Mexico deal. They've pulled a number of shady stunts in the past few years here in Texas. They've also nailed a number of people that were outright buying guns for the cartels. It's kinda your typical government deal, a little good and a little bad.

 

[Mic]

Hmm. Makes you wonder. Hard to tell from hearing only one side of the story.
Not that I necessarily agree with the laws, but if I were on the jury as a normal Joe trying to interpret intent from a vague law, I think I would focus on how long he owned each gun for. Two extreme scenarios...
1) Buy a gun, sell it two weeks later. Buy another gun, sell it 5 days later. Buy a gun, sell it 5 weeks later. Etc....
2) Buy gun #14, sell gun #1 purchased 15 months before. Buy gun #15, sell gun #2 purchased 13 months before. Buy gun #16, sell gun #3 purchased 13 months before.
Scenario#1 looks more like buying a gun and selling it for profit.
Scenario#2 looks more like something I would do if I wasn't one of these who hates to get rid of something in case I ever wanted it again.

Profit level also would play in. If he was making $200 per gun versus $20 per gun, it might look more like he's running a business. Did it say something in there about him not making money overall? I think that was posted, but I don't remember hearing lawyer guy saying anything.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

One more member of the blue gang who will ask for protective custody.

 

[Wolfwood]

Guilty or not, this guy was never going to have a fair trial. The BATFE is rabid for railroading anyone they can on the whole guns going into Mexico deal. They've pulled a number of shady stunts in the past few years here in Texas. They've also nailed a number of people that were outright buying guns for the cartels. It's kinda your typical government deal, a little good and a little bad.

yeppers.

 

[Texan2]

One more member of the blue gang who will ask for protective custody.

He wont have to ask for it... former LEOs are not put in general population when incarcerated. Nor should they be.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

He wont have to ask for it... former LEOs are not put in general population when incarcerated. Nor should they be.

I'll chip in for soap on a rope.