Feds scan plates at gun shows in Kommiefornia

[Chirpy]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/gun-show-customers-license-plates-come-under-scrutiny-1475451302

Federal agents have persuaded police officers to scan license plates to gather information about gun-show customers, government emails show, raising questions about how officials monitor constitutionally protected activity.


Emails reviewed by The Wall Street Journal show agents with the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency crafted a plan in 2010 to use license-plate readers—devices that record the plate numbers of all passing cars—at gun shows in Southern California, including one in Del Mar, not far from the Mexican border. Agents then compared that information to cars that crossed the border, hoping to find gun smugglers, according to the documents and interviews with law-enforcement officials with knowledge of the operation.

Earlier Coverage

• Lawmakers Press Justice Department on DEA License-Plate Database (Jan. 28, 2015)
• U.S. Spies on Millions of Drivers (Jan. 26, 2015)
• New Tracking Frontier: Your License Plates (Sept. 29, 2012)

The investigative tactic concerns privacy and guns-rights advocates, who call it an invasion of privacy. The law-enforcement officials say it is an important and legal tool for pursuing dangerous, hard-to-track illegal activity.

There is no indication the gun-show surveillance led to any arrests or investigative leads, but the officials didn’t rule out that such surveillance may have happened elsewhere. The agency has no written policy on its use of license-plate readers and could engage in similar surveillance in the future, they said.

Kinda disturbing...as parking lots are generally private property and not public roads.

 

[oohrah]

You have no expectation of privacy. Parking lots at gun shows are open to the public regardless of ownership, so again, no expectation of privacy. Besides, driving a vehicle on a public street is a privilege granted by your driver's license, not a right. No expectation of privacy, no 4A violation.

 

[majormadmax]

You have no expectation of privacy. Parking lots at gun shows are open to the public regardless of ownership, so again, no expectation of privacy. Besides, driving a vehicle on a public street is a privilege granted by your driver's license, not a right. No expectation of privacy, no 4A violation.

Bingo!

 

[zincwarrior]

Wait there are gun shows in California?

 

[grasshopperglock]

What 4th amendment are you referring to?

In a public parking lot. I expect the contents of my wallet as Private. My movement as Private. My purchase as Private. My conversations...private.
My SSN, birthday, and so on.

But because license plates have to displayed. Blackmailed by 'state privilege' granted on my poor soul.

My expectations of privacy on that is prevented by law. The excuse, it's a public space. Yet I still can't secure my information. Taking advantage of 4th amendment.

 

[Renegade]

You have no expectation of privacy. Parking lots at gun shows are open to the public regardless of ownership, so again, no expectation of privacy. Besides, driving a vehicle on a public street is a privilege granted by your driver's license, not a right. No expectation of privacy, no 4A violation.

I do not expect the govt to be spying on me while I conduct constitutional protected activities. Recording Plates outside abortion clinic or a BLA meeting would not fly. But of course gun owners just bend over and take it, buying into whatever govt bullshit they are fed.

 

[TheDan]

driving a vehicle on a public street is a privilege granted by your driver's license, not a right. No expectation of privacy, no 4A violation.

More reason we need to stop accepting this driver's license for personal use. A few people have managed to fight it successfully, and it'd get easier if more people did.

 

[fishingsetx]

What 4th amendment are you referring to?

In a public parking lot. I expect the contents of my wallet as Private. My movement as Private. My purchase as Private. My conversations...private.
My SSN, birthday, and so on.

But because license plates have to displayed. Blackmailed by 'state privilege' granted on my poor soul.

My expectations of privacy on that is prevented by law. The excuse, it's a public space. Yet I still can't secure my information. Taking advantage of 4th amendment.

Pull into gun show, remove license plate and lock it in the car out of site. replace license plate upon leaving (just like you would anything else you mentioned). It is only illegal to drive on a public road without it, not park in a parking lot.

I don't agree with what they are doing at all, but as someone else mentioned, it is a public space.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[zincwarrior]

More reason we need to stop accepting this driver's license for personal use. A few people have managed to fight it successfully, and it'd get easier if more people did.

You mean as in drive without a license. Yes that will work. I envision literally no problems whatsoever.

Pull into gun show, remove license plate and lock it in the car out of site. replace license plate upon leaving (just like you would anything else you mentioned). It is only illegal to drive on a public road without it, not park in a parking lot.

or pull into gunshow and not give a Sh&*...what they are doing is legal. What you are doing is legal. Everybody's legal. Prices inside gun show...potentially illegal...

 

[texas skeeter]

I'd just borrow Zincs plates for the day and hit all the local gunshows! Lol

 

[fishingsetx]

You mean as in drive without a license. Yes that will work. I envision literally no problems whatsoever.

or pull into gunshow and not give a Sh&*...what they are doing is legal. What you are doing is legal. Everybody's legal. Prices inside gun show...potentially illegal...

That's what I'd do! If they are monitoring my activities, they live one heck of a boring life. I've been hunting the last 3 days on NPS land, so I may be being watched!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[zincwarrior]

I'd just borrow Zincs plates for the day and hit all the local gunshows! Lol

Do you really want to have "Libtard1" on your plate at a gunshow?

Hoban 'Wash' Washburne: Man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything.

You could borrow the wife's: "DscoMama"

 

[benenglish]

Pull into gun show, remove license plate and lock it in the car out of site. replace license plate upon leaving (just like you would anything else you mentioned). It is only illegal to drive on a public road without it, not park in a parking lot.

In Texas, this appears to be the case. This seems weird to me, though. Why not just carry around a cover for the plates? Because it's illegal in Texas. To wit:

Sec. 504.945. ... OBSCURED LICENSE PLATE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person attaches to or displays on a motor vehicle a license plate that:
...
(7) has a ... covering, ... that:
...
(C) ... obscures the letters or numbers ...

The normal (to paraphrase) "this only applies while operating the vehicle on public roads" proviso is NOT contained in this section. So, no covers.

(I'm sure someone who actually writes tickets will come along to correct me if I have that wrong. I would welcome that.)

However, the situation cited by the OP was in California. There, plate covers that make the plate unreadable are legal for parked vehicles, even vehicles parked on public roads. There's a provision in the law empowering parking enforcement personnel to remove the cover to read the plate.

What strikes me as interesting is that if, in California, the plate readers are employed on a private parking lot, covers could only be removed for parking enforcement purposes. That would (theoretically) defeat the whole program of reading plates just to put together a database of gun-buying folk.

Until I started studying this, I didn't realize that merely the rules about how to put a plate on a car are stupefyingly complex and wildly different from state to state. I suppose there's a reason we need so many lawyers.

 

[benenglish]

Man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything.

Best. Single-Season. Show. Ever.

 

[Mike1234567]

Pull into gun show, remove license plate and lock it in the car out of site. replace license plate upon leaving (just like you would anything else you mentioned). It is only illegal to drive on a public road without it, not park in a parking lot.

I don't agree with what they are doing at all, but as someone else mentioned, it is a public space.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Or just cover it. That's much easier. And any LEO touching the vehicle to reveal the plates is a violation of 4A. On private property they can't do a damn thing about it without a warrant.

 

[texas skeeter]

Do you really want to have "Libtard1" on your plate at a gunshow?

Almost spit up my soda! Lol

 

[zincwarrior]

Best. Single-Season. Show. Ever.

Yes indeed. Wash: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Originally Posted by zincwarrior
Do you really want to have "Libtard1" on your plate at a gunshow?
Almost spit up my soda! Lol

The honor, is to serve.

 

[ROGER4314]

Justify it all you want. It's still creepy!

Flash

 

[zincwarrior]

Justify it all you want. It's still creepy!

Flash

Fair point.

 

[BRD@66]

..... I suppose there's a reason we need so many lawyers.

Well, it's a chicken and egg thing.