Fixed or variable electric rate?

[Haystack]

I'm still trying to follow the money trail on this whole ERCOT disaster. I've read that the Texas AG has now filed a suit against ERCO for deceptive trade practices. I've also read that ERCO is on the hook for roughly $2 billion dollars in unpaid bills for electricity. I've also read that the wholesale price of electricity spiked from $50/MHw to $9,000/MHw. Maybe I don't understand what I am reading, but it seems that the power producers sell electricity to ERCOT who then resell that electricity to retail providers. Somewhere along the path fees are added to compensate other companies for maintaining the power lines.

So my question is this, "Who sets the wholesale price of electricity?" If it's an unregulated free market system, it seems to me that the spike in price was action taken by the power plants. Whom I might add, nobody is really talking about. If that is true, then accountability for price gouging that occurred should be laid at the feet of the power generation companies.

This whole thing is a dark cloud that is hard to see through.

 

[Analog Kid]

Perhaps we should Amp it up a notch.

 

[mitchntx]

So my question is this, "Who sets the wholesale price of electricity?" If it's an unregulated free market system, it seems to me that the spike in price was action taken by the power plants. Whom I might add, nobody is really talking about. If that is true, then accountability for price gouging that occurred should be laid at the feet of the power generation companies.

This whole thing is a dark cloud that is hard to see through.

Interesting angle ... a conspiracy? If prices were $9K mW/hr, generation companies dropped power plants off line?

The power plant where I worked generated power in the red except for those peak demand days when the prices spiked. It's what kept the steam flowing.

The problem seems to stem from power generators dropping offline, alright ... renewable, fossil and nuclear. When plants trip without warning, the drop creates a phase issue across the interconnected grid. When two generators are feeding power at 60Hz and the grid is dropping to 59.5, arcing across coils begin and generators begin failing.

So a power producer intentionally drops plant A offline that affects the operation of plants B, C and D doesn't make a lot of sense.

Follow the money? How about years of deregulation with ever decreasing profit margins, no incentive or capital to build new plants, ever tightening EPA rules and regulation increasing the costs, mass influx of new users/companies ... i.e. demand ... and then the perfect storm descends on the whole state ... Doesn't take Kreskin to predict this would happen.

 

[Analog Kid]

Interesting angle ... a conspiracy? If prices were $9K mW/hr, generation companies dropped power plants off line?

The power plant where I worked generated power in the red except for those peak demand days when the prices spiked. It's what kept the steam flowing.

The problem seems to stem from power generators dropping offline, alright ... renewable, fossil and nuclear. When plants trip without warning, the drop creates a phase issue across the interconnected grid. When two generators are feeding power at 60Hz and the grid is dropping to 59.5, arcing across coils begin and generators begin failing.

So a power producer intentionally drops plant A offline that affects the operation of plants B, C and D doesn't make a lot of sense.

Follow the money? How about years of deregulation with ever decreasing profit margins, no incentive or capital to build new plants, ever tightening EPA rules and regulation increasing the costs, mass influx of new users/companies ... i.e. demand ... and then the perfect storm descends on the whole state ... Doesn't take Kreskin to predict this would happen.

Please explain.. (June 21, 2018 - the day every day became Saturday!) Thanks.

 

[mitchntx]

Please explain.. (June 21, 2018 - the day every day became Saturday!) Thanks.

Retirement ... I highly recommend it.

 

[oldag]

I'm still trying to follow the money trail on this whole ERCOT disaster. I've read that the Texas AG has now filed a suit against ERCO for deceptive trade practices. I've also read that ERCO is on the hook for roughly $2 billion dollars in unpaid bills for electricity. I've also read that the wholesale price of electricity spiked from $50/MHw to $9,000/MHw. Maybe I don't understand what I am reading, but it seems that the power producers sell electricity to ERCOT who then resell that electricity to retail providers. Somewhere along the path fees are added to compensate other companies for maintaining the power lines.

So my question is this, "Who sets the wholesale price of electricity?" If it's an unregulated free market system, it seems to me that the spike in price was action taken by the power plants. Whom I might add, nobody is really talking about. If that is true, then accountability for price gouging that occurred should be laid at the feet of the power generation companies.

This whole thing is a dark cloud that is hard to see through.

ERCOT sets the price. The price goes up when more power is needed, and down when less is needed. Thus encouraging generators to either increase or decrease their output.

Power plants are reacting to pricing, not setting pricing.

 

[oldag]

I'm still trying to follow the money trail on this whole ERCOT disaster. I've read that the Texas AG has now filed a suit against ERCO for deceptive trade practices. I've also read that ERCO is on the hook for roughly $2 billion dollars in unpaid bills for electricity. I've also read that the wholesale price of electricity spiked from $50/MHw to $9,000/MHw. Maybe I don't understand what I am reading, but it seems that the power producers sell electricity to ERCOT who then resell that electricity to retail providers. Somewhere along the path fees are added to compensate other companies for maintaining the power lines.

So my question is this, "Who sets the wholesale price of electricity?" If it's an unregulated free market system, it seems to me that the spike in price was action taken by the power plants. Whom I might add, nobody is really talking about. If that is true, then accountability for price gouging that occurred should be laid at the feet of the power generation companies.

This whole thing is a dark cloud that is hard to see through.

ERCOT sets the price. The price goes up when more power is needed, and down when less is needed. Thus encouraging generators to either increase or decrease their output.

Power plants are reacting to pricing, not setting pricing.

 

[oldag]

Interesting angle ... a conspiracy? If prices were $9K mW/hr, generation companies dropped power plants off line?

The power plant where I worked generated power in the red except for those peak demand days when the prices spiked. It's what kept the steam flowing.

The problem seems to stem from power generators dropping offline, alright ... renewable, fossil and nuclear. When plants trip without warning, the drop creates a phase issue across the interconnected grid. When two generators are feeding power at 60Hz and the grid is dropping to 59.5, arcing across coils begin and generators begin failing.

So a power producer intentionally drops plant A offline that affects the operation of plants B, C and D doesn't make a lot of sense.

Follow the money? How about years of deregulation with ever decreasing profit margins, no incentive or capital to build new plants, ever tightening EPA rules and regulation increasing the costs, mass influx of new users/companies ... i.e. demand ... and then the perfect storm descends on the whole state ... Doesn't take Kreskin to predict this would happen.

Generation companies did not willingly drop power plants offline. Prices did reach $9k/MW.

The only generation that was not producing was that which had problems and could not produce.

 

[gll]

Received my electric bill from Bandera Electric Co-op today. Rates were the same as last month, with no additional charges.

My solar production for the month was the lowest ever, for any month, but not much lower than some other Jan or Feb... Bill is $57.17, up from last month ($29.48). Lowest in the past year was $2.63.

With the shorter month, rolling blackouts, and one night on generator, my kwh used was actually lower than Jan.

 

[mitchntx]

My bill was about 50% higher and so was my usage.

Generation companies did not willingly drop power plants offline. Prices did reach $9k/MW.

The only generation that was not producing was that which had problems and could not produce.

OK ... not sure what your point is ... that is all common knowledge, but worth repeating, I guess.

 

[Younggun]

Same here. Bill is up about 50%, a little over $300. Rates didn’t change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oldag]

My bill was about 50% higher and so was my usage.



OK ... not sure what your point is ... that is all common knowledge, but worth repeating, I guess.

Just punching holes in your conspiracy theory.

 

[mitchntx]

Just punching holes in your conspiracy theory.

Might oughta re-zero your targeting ...

This was your conspiracy theorists ....

I'm still trying to follow the money trail on this whole ERCOT disaster.

 

[oldag]

Might oughta re-zero your targeting ...

This was your conspiracy theorists ....

Adjusting for wind and elevation...

 

[mitchntx]

Adjusting for wind and elevation...

Plenty of wind in these hills

 

[toddnjoyce]

San Antonio’s CPS Energy was bithcing about a $1B bil in February. $800M to gas providers and $200M to ERCOT.

CPS Energy faces $1 billion bill for winter weather power crisis

CPS Energy and its customers could be facing a $1 billion bill for February’s weather-related power crisis, though utility officials say they are doing what they can to protect customers.

www.ksat.com

CPS Energy’s first thought was to pass that on to customers over an 120 month amortization. Nobody really liked that idea, so now they are back to trying to figure out an answer.

Meanwhile, CPS say it has proactively turned off auto-pay for all customers. I’m guessing that will fûck up some things more, intentionally or not.

 

[HKSig]

2.63x $ higher, with lower usage than the previous period.