Glock 17 and a SIGMA 40

[SC-Texas]

A client paid his fee with a new S&W Sigma 40. I have wanted a cheap, reliable gun to keep in the MURSE.

The MURSE is the Maxpedition Collosus hip pack that goes from car to house to truck on a daily basis and carries the GPS the ipod, the radar detector etc.

I have no other handgun in .40 S&W as I have always beleived that the .40 was a solution desparately in search of a problem . . . but I digress.

I shot the sigma today and my glock 17. The Glock is the superior pistol.

But I won't leave the glock in the murse everyday.

So here are some observations;

1. The sigma trigger sucks. Its creepy heavy and occasionally slapped my trigger finger. Shooting the g17 afterward reminded me how good the glock trigger can be with a drop in connecter and a fluff and buff. I will probably send it back to S&W and have them do their trigger job on it.

2. The sigma feels good in my hand. Not as good as the g17 but not bad.

3. I still think .40 is a solution in search of a problem. The recoil felt sharp. I'm not going to be trading my 9mm, 10mm or 45ACP for a .40 S&W anytime soon.

4. The SIGMA works. It works like every other S&W auto that I have ever owned. That means that it goes BANG everytime the trigger is pulled. I only put about 200 rounds through it,so its not a real test but this pistol ate everything from lead swc to HP. No issues. No stoppages. It will be interesting to see how this gun works over the next 500 rounds or so.

5. The magazines are typical sw $30.00. Mags. Metal, heavy, well built.

6. Accuracy. The trigger is the most limiting factor affecting accuracy. I don't think anyone can shoot the sigma well wth that trigger. However, at the distance this pistol would most likely be used at, the trigger is not as much of a factor. Followup shots are gong to be slow and pulled off the point of aim.


Overall I think the glock is obviously the better gun. But this pistol is great for the normal price. S&W is offering extra mags with the gun. I would reccomend the Glock pistols over the SIGMA, but if the choice is a Ho-Point of hte SIgma, get the SIGMA.

 

[Al Swearengen®]

Nice review thanks for sharing. In my experience working at a range, later down the line the Sigma will have some issues like failure to feed. There's a reason why they're under the $300 price tag.

 

[Texas Bulldog]

Nice review thanks for sharing. In my experience working at a range, later down the line the Sigma will have some issues like failure to feed. There's a reason why they're under the $300 price tag.

I have gone through 6 sigma's and currently have 3 around the house.

all 3 have trigger jobs of sort. 2 were done by S&W, and 1 done by me by just removing the second spring (search youtube).

per my spreadsheet's i keep on all my guns for round fired. Im at 1,150- 2,120 and 3700 rounds fired through them. All are the newer generation and only 1 has had a problem with FTF and it was brand specific to Golden sabre ammo. I think the radical lip on the golden saber is to blame really.

I have worked at a shooting range for 3 years and i have never seen a Sigma to have any differen't problem's than a glock. occasionally i would see people limp wrist them and the occasional light primer strike which goes away when you clean the gunk/debris/oil out of the firing pin tunnel.

The Sigma is a fantastic gun for the price. You can use glock holsters and even some glock parts, Its dependable and i would trust my life to it. The 2 extra mags or 50bucks is a nice kick back from S&W.

Mags at $30 is only 5 bucks more than a glock and on par with several other brands so its kinda hard to knock em' for that, especially since most people don't buy extra mags.

I think the sigma is often knocked for no good reason. For the price point its a fantastic deal. Especially when you can find them used for 200-250 bucks and one of mine was had for only 2 boxes of .45 WWB ammo!...

I think there is a better gun out there in the $300 gun which is the Ruger P95 but its quite bulky. If you want a budget CCW gun, this is it... its nice and slim and no chance of getting hit by an attorney saying you had a hair trigger, lol.

Its a great Truck gun, House gun, Bug out bag gun, and even CCW. There is a lot nicer out there, and you will pay more for it.

Im a fan of the sigma because i love all guns, the Sigma fills a gap in the market very well.

My .02 cents.

JOe

 

[cougartex]

I agree the Glock is much better than the Sigma. The Sigma is one of the few guns I have owned and sold, just not my cup of tea.

 

[wllmwallace]

Yeah, removing that pigtail secondary spring REALLY helps trigger pull on the SWOCK. Did mine myself, and it shot MUCH better, but not good enough to stay. I'll stick with my XD's.

 

[Rabies]

Thanks for the reviews.

Before going to the gun show, I had narrowed down my choices for an inexpensive handgun with conceal carry potential, for me, to a Kel Tec P11, Ruger P95 or Smith and Wesson Sigma SW9VE.

At the gun show, the Kel Tec felt a little too small. I thought I wanted a pocket pistol and think I still do. Just not right now. Compared to the Sigma, the Ruger felt more chunky. A little too big. The Sigma felt just right. There really isn't a lot of size difference between the P95 and the Sigma so this was just my own taste. The P95 and Sigma both have more positive reviews than the P11. It was a tough choice and I'll own a Kel Tec one day. On that day though, I chose the Sigma.

I haven't shot it yet. I got it home, cleaned and oiled it according to the owner's manual and loaded the magazines. The 15th round was hard to get in. The 16th round, near impossible. Everyday since, I have unloaded and reloaded the magazines once a day. It's been a few days with loaded magazines sitting in the case and it's gotten much easier to load all 16 rounds. That 16th is still a bit tough though.

By Saturday afternoon I should have a range report. There won't be any Glock comparison because I've only shot two Glocks and that was years ago. A 10mm and a .40. Can't say I didn't like them. Can't say i don't like Rugers either. My buddy has a Super Blackhawk. Very nice.

 

[Stangfan93]

You know it's funny, when at the gun range and I see someone with a sigma I look down on them because they have an inferior gun. My CZ is leaps and bounds better then the sigma. My Springer and norinco 1911's are much better that the sigma. But, at home tucked away in it's blue box in my closet is my 1st gun ever, and S&W Sigma .40. I don't know why a think as I do even when I own one myself. But mine has not ever given me problems. Within the 1st year or so of owning that gun I probably put 2k plus rounds through that gun. I won't ever get rid of it mostly because sentimental reason.

In all actuallity is. It a good gun aside from the trigger. And price point is right it is cheap and if you send in a coupon you get 2 more magazines for free.

Besides everyone ought to have a weapon to defend themselves should the need arise.

 

[Texas1911]

Sigma's have taken the normal loose Glock chamber and made it even looser and even more unsupported at the feed ramp, as a result the brass swells almost to the point of failure.

I am to the point where I can pick up brass and point out what was fired in a Glock or Sigma, and then sort out the Sigma from that pile.

For reloading, the Sigma brass has to be hell on your re-sizer.

 

[Texas Bulldog]

Considering the Sigma usually goes to a person who buys it as a first gun or on a budget, they usually aren't re-loading.

and my 9mm sigma never had that issue, it was noticable on my .40 sigma though. It was infact re-sized for that chamber. I have never heard anyone else mention that. Interesting.

Sigma's have taken the normal loose Glock chamber and made it even looser and even more unsupported at the feed ramp, as a result the brass swells almost to the point of failure.

I am to the point where I can pick up brass and point out what was fired in a Glock or Sigma, and then sort out the Sigma from that pile.

For reloading, the Sigma brass has to be hell on your re-sizer.

 

[coachrick]

FWIW, I have both the G17 and Sigma(40). I was 'shamed' into the 40 cal by a friend who gets LE hand-me-downs and just doesn't think 9mm is 'enough'. No need to rehash that caliber debate but for range work, 40 cal is significantly more expensive than 9mm--a touch harder to find, as well. For me, the Sigma fits my hand more like my G26 that I frequently CC; the G17 just doesn't fit my hand the same. In retrospect, the Sigma was just an inexpensive 'caliber fling' and I would probably swap for another 9mm should the opportunity present itself. Since I also shoot a DA/SA revolver, the Sigma trigger is not 'bad' to me, just different...it's certainly not a light touch SA trigger but it has its place, IMO.

BTW, I sent in my S&W rebate paperwork in mid-December...haven't heard a peep!

 

[BurkGlocker]

The Sigma was my first gun as well. I bought one in 1999 right after they first came out. I took it to the range, fired about 150 rounds out of it and the firing pin broke. Sent it to S&W, and got it back two weeks later. I ended up trading it and some coins for a G22C and havent looked back since...

okay, okay, okay... I thought about buying another one, but when reminded of the crappy trigger, I shy away from it...

BG

 

[Sig master]

I had a sigma for about 8 months and got rid of it . It is a waste of money and piece of crap

 

[Texan2]

i owned 2 sigmas in .40 back in the 90's....I never had an issue with them. they shot good and went bang everytime. geez guys, they are $250 brand new and are simple and reliable fiearms. do they compare to a Kimber, Sig, or any other high dollar gun? No, but for what they cost, they arent bad.

 

[Rabies]

My wife and I shot the S&W Sigma VE 9mm today.

The trigger. You have to squeeze it to fire the gun. It does take more to pull than a single action revolver. This is a double action semi-auto. Neither of us found it excessively heavy or hard to pull. It's smooth and even all the way through. I can see why people might like a lighter pull. Final word, the trigger is OK.

Sights. They are easy to see.

Overall feel. It feels fine. Not too heavy here or too light there. It fits my hand. My wife would like something a little smaller but still said it was OK. Recoil was recoil.

Operation. I had one misfire out of 100 rounds. The strike on the primer looked the same as any other. We were shooting Monarch brand ammo. I reloaded and it shot. Yes, I know. Some people say you should never ever do that. My wife had one failure to feed. The shot round ejected and the slide did not go full forward on the next round. Instead of tapping it forward, she pulled back and that round stayed in the barrel. She let the slide go and, of course, a new round tried to feed. She pulled back the slide again and let both rounds fall out. She released the slide and continued to fire with no problems. She did this on her own. I was shooting a different gun in the next lane and didn't see it happen.

I'll let one misfire go as being a bad round. It happens. The failure to feed could have been the gun or the shooter. Neither of us shoot semi-auto handguns very much. This is the first we've owned in years. We had no other feed problems.

Accuracy. We both think the gun shoots low at 21 feet. Maybe we were pulling the gun down as we squeezed the trigger. Groups were, well, all the shots hit the paper. They even made it to numbered rings. A few even in the bulls eye. Being as that we did get a few shots to group closely, I'll practice more before saying it's not as accurate as I'd like. How accurate is a gun with a barrel shorter than my finger anyway?

All in all, I want to shoot the Sigma more.

 

[Texas42]

All in all, I want to shoot the Sigma more.

So when is shooting not fun? (ok, when it isn't painful?)

: P

 

[SC-Texas]

I plan on giving my Sigma 40 a chance.

Someonehas mentioned that you can send the weapon back to S&W 7 they will re-work the trigger.

 

[Texas Bulldog]

I plan on giving my Sigma 40 a chance.

Someonehas mentioned that you can send the weapon back to S&W 7 they will re-work the trigger.

I posted that and its a weird thing i guess. I've had people say that S&W won't touch the trigger because the weight of trigger pull is "Designed" that way for safety and to be a Double action pull of sort.

But at the same time, they did 2 of mine with no questions asked and lots of people online have said the same thing and thats why i sent mine.

I think you have to tell them that your using it as a "Target" gun so they don't feel liable if you were to have to take a life with a factory modded trigger. Sounds dumb but thats how i read into it.

and there is that second spring in there you can remove. No joke, its just a heavy second spring and if you removed it, the trigger went from 10.2lbs to 5.1lbs. And its something you can put back on if you want, its worth a shot i think.

Best of luck

JOe

 

[Texas Bulldog]

My wife and I shot the S&W Sigma VE 9mm today.

The trigger. You have to squeeze it to fire the gun. It does take more to pull than a single action revolver. This is a double action semi-auto. Neither of us found it excessively heavy or hard to pull. It's smooth and even all the way through. I can see why people might like a lighter pull. Final word, the trigger is OK.

Sights. They are easy to see.

Overall feel. It feels fine. Not too heavy here or too light there. It fits my hand. My wife would like something a little smaller but still said it was OK. Recoil was recoil.

Operation. I had one misfire out of 100 rounds. The strike on the primer looked the same as any other. We were shooting Monarch brand ammo. I reloaded and it shot. Yes, I know. Some people say you should never ever do that. My wife had one failure to feed. The shot round ejected and the slide did not go full forward on the next round. Instead of tapping it forward, she pulled back and that round stayed in the barrel. She let the slide go and, of course, a new round tried to feed. She pulled back the slide again and let both rounds fall out. She released the slide and continued to fire with no problems. She did this on her own. I was shooting a different gun in the next lane and didn't see it happen.

I'll let one misfire go as being a bad round. It happens. The failure to feed could have been the gun or the shooter. Neither of us shoot semi-auto handguns very much. This is the first we've owned in years. We had no other feed problems.

Accuracy. We both think the gun shoots low at 21 feet. Maybe we were pulling the gun down as we squeezed the trigger. Groups were, well, all the shots hit the paper. They even made it to numbered rings. A few even in the bulls eye. Being as that we did get a few shots to group closely, I'll practice more before saying it's not as accurate as I'd like. How accurate is a gun with a barrel shorter than my finger anyway?

All in all, I want to shoot the Sigma more.

Great review, and i fell its very simiar to my experiences.

Ive had Monarch ammo fail to go off in my Glock before, but ive never used it in my Sigma so i don't know. I think your problem could be ammo. As for accuracy, i bet you nailed it on the head about pulling the trigger. I put my Sigma on a Ransom Rest and it pulled a 2.8" group at 25 yards.. The gun is a great gun if you can accept it for what it is and price point.

Have fun with it

 

[TheTomcat]

I have both Sigmas (9mm/ 40cal). NEVER had a problem with either. I shoot them both every time I go to the range. They were not my first guns and I knew what I was buying. I never liked Glock grips they are too bulky. I understand the new frame is better. I will buy one if that's so this weekend and we'll see. I know Glocks are great proven guns but if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. Anyway, like I said no problems at all with the Sigmas. I use the .40 as a travel gun for the car. I was in downtown New Orleans this past week looking for a restaurant. Willie Maes I think. ROUGH area and I felt better. It wasn't open anyway.

 

[Rabies]

One more review from me on the Smith and Wesson Sigma VE 9mm.

I shot 150 rounds today. Some Monarch and some Blazer; all fmj. No problems at all. I also shot much, much more accurate. Shooting free standing just like before and at 21 feet firing at a silhouette type target, I got to where the bulk of my shots were in the 9 ring and some on the X. I took a few one handed shots at the head of the target and you would not have wanted that to be your head.

Me likey.