Going to be selling some firearms -- guidance please

[Utah]

I've moved to Texas and my wife and I will be selling a house we own in Utah. We're empty nesters now and are decluttering our lives, and letting go of a lot of stuff. I've got a lot of firearms, and I'll be reducing that number once I get them down here in December. I'll at least sell redundant guns (I have more than one of the same model) and a few that I haven't shot much over the years.

So, what are the rules for being able to list a firearm on this site? My own personal rule is that I will only sell to a person holding a concealed firearm permit, so in these parts I will ask to see the purchaser's CHL. I will also ask to see a current Driver License. I won't record that information, but we'll each sign a slip of paper saying such-and-such firearm was transferred between us on such-and-such a date. I won't print the purchaser's name on the receipt, and I don't care how sloppily you may sign your name. [[see update below]]

I figure I'll probably end up selling 5-10 handguns.


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UPDATE: I've been convinced that lightweight bill of sale serves no purpose. I won't be requiring that to be executed. I will still only sell to a CHL holder, and will ask to see DL and CHL.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Your guns, free to do as you wish. The only requirement in Texas is that they be a resident over the age of 18, and not convicted of a felony.

For some, insistence on a CHL OR any kind of paperwork memorializing the transaction will be a turn-off. Speaking only for myself, I'd pass on such a thing. Others won't care......and I not only have a CHL, I daresay I've got a coupla guns around the place.

 

[rsayloriii]

Many on here won't do business with you if you require a bill of sale. Also, IMO, to require a CHL is a bit silly. Reason I say that is that there are many people on here that don't have one, myself included. Your sale so you can do what you want; just my 2 cents.

 

[rsayloriii]

Looks like TR beat me to it.

 

[Acera]

If the person you are dealing with does not appear trustworthy, a piece of paper will not make it better, don't do the deal.

As others have said, you limit the number of good honest folks that will deal with you by insisting on a meaningless, legally misleading and dangerous paper trail.

 

[Utah]

Seeing the CHL and Driver License are my way of doing my best to uphold the law and have a high degree of confidence I'm not selling to a prohibited person. As for the bill of sale, as I mentioned I don't put names and I don't care how readable your signature is. The purpose of the paper is the proof that the gun departed my possession on a particular date. I understand there will be those who won't want to do business with me if they cannot remain fully anonymous during the transaction, and that is fine.

I'm an instructor for the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP), so perhaps that has influenced my opinion of selling only to those who have shown some get-up-and-go in their attitude and commitment to being responsible firearm owners.

So, no "you have to have been on the forum so long" or "you have to have made so many posts" before listing a firearm for sale, correct?

 

[Koinonia]

25 post rule, but you've already passed that.

No auction type of posts where you name an outrageously high price, then say OBO!

 

[rsayloriii]

I don't think it's so much as "need for anonymity" but just a "it's not required by law". As far as "doing your best to uphold the law", a simple "you are legally able to own and possess this firearm, correct?" would suffice, and as Acera said, if they look shady, then don't deal.

You'll find that people here in Texas don't feel the need to be "burdened" with regulations of legally trading/buying firearms in a private sale, otherwise we'd just go down to the gun store and buy one there.

 

[GlockOwner]

These 3 threads spell it out nicely. Basically, you meet the post requirement of 25, not "must be a member for a certain period of time" requirement. Some other info in the 3 threads

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/guns-sale/7147-rules-read-before-you-post-ad.html

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...your-thread-title-your-post-will-deleted.html

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/guns-sale/52519-mark-your-thread-sold-wtt-wtb-wts.html

 

[Feedthemlead]

Well what you do is once you get settled you call me....<---has CHL and will sign and accept bill of sale. I would love to see what your bring with you to the big state of Texas!

 

[TexasRedneck]

With all due respect, stating that you're a CHL instructor has no bearing on your sale of a firearm. And that piece of paper is NO kind of "proof" that it left your possession. It has ZERO legal standing. What it does do with folks like myself is mark you as someone that doesn't know firearms law, and as such puts you in an "avoid" column. I'm just one guy, though - albeit one that buys firearms routinely.

 

[mitchntx]

I will ask to see the purchaser's CHL. I will also ask to see a current Driver License. I won't record that information, but we'll each sign a slip of paper saying such-and-such firearm was transferred between us on such-and-such a date. I won't print the purchaser's name on the receipt, and I don't care how sloppily you may sign your name.

Seeing the CHL and Driver License are my way of doing my best to uphold the law and have a high degree of confidence I'm not selling to a prohibited person. As for the bill of sale, as I mentioned I don't put names and I don't care how readable your signature is. The purpose of the paper is the proof that the gun departed my possession on a particular date.

From your point of view, what's the difference between an illegible signature and swearing on a bible that the gun left your possession?

Anyone can produce a piece of paper with a bunch of hen scratching on it. My granddaughter generates reems of BOSs that meet your criteria each time she visits.

You have every right to demand a BOS. As a buyer, I have my own due diligence in a private sale. And someone who is insistent on "proving" the weapon left their possession is doing so for a suspicious reason.

You are seeking assurance that you will be in the clear if the weapon is used illegally after it leaves your possession and I am concerned about it being dumped on me after it has been illegally used. A piece of paper with illegible and thus untraceable and unsubstantiated data serves neither purpose.

But I'd love to see the list of guns for sale

 

[Texasjack]

There have been debates on this BOS BS before and it's really a waste of time to start a new one. You certainly have the right to utilize whatever prejudice you like in selling your stuff - BOS, CHL, birth certificate, blood type, ...., whatever. You've been given the very fair advice that it will reduce the number of potential buyers, and that may affect the amount you receive for the firearms.

Others have already pointed out that all of that is meaningless. The buyer might resell or give away the firearm 5 minutes after taking possession. Quite honestly, your prejudice about possessing a CHL makes you sound like those anti-gun Yankees that think that possessing a firearm should require a special permit. That may not be what you intended, but it is still what comes across. I suspect that even some CHL holders, like me, might be pretty reluctant to get involved - further reducing your pool of buyers.

Good luck with your sale.

 

[TundraWookiee]

Yet another that would have been interested if not for the meaningless requirements. I have a CHL and am also an instructor but cannot support requiring those for a sale. There are plenty of responsible owners without a CHL. A BOS is an even more useless requirement as it will do nothing for you legally. Are you going to have a legally drafted document (ahem 4473 and FFL book) or a notary present? If not then it really wont make an ounce of difference. I could write up a BOS for all my guns now and scribble someone else's name...

Losing out on a lot of big buyers with that nonsense.

Sent from Kate Beckinsale's closet.

 

[TX69]

Many on here won't do business with you if you require a bill of sale. Also, IMO, to require a CHL is a bit silly. Reason I say that is that there are many people on here that don't have one, myself included. Your sale so you can do what you want; just my 2 cents.

It is customary in Texas to give deep discounts to those with a CHL. I'll be over soon to pick out which guns I want

 

[Sugar Land]

Just bring them all by my place and will assist you getting the best you can get for them...

 

[IXLR8]

It appears that you stepped into a hornets nest of differing opinions. Use your best judgement in your transactions. It will be apparent who should not take possession of your firearm.
I have never had any complaint with doing business with anyone on this board, but I cannot say the same for other avenues of sale.

 

[Utah]

As far as "doing your best to uphold the law", a simple "you are legally able to own and possess this firearm, correct?" would suffice, and as Acera said, if they look shady, then don't deal.

I understand exactly what you are saying -- I meet the technical burden of the law by not knowingly selling to a disallowed person. However, I work in computer stuff, including security, and I also know that a self-certification of trustworthiness cannot in itself be trusted. There is the guy with prison tats and meth stains that would jump out at me as "high risk", but there are also those guys dressed nicely and well-groomed who will turn around and knowingly sell to the disallowed. In the absence of third-party proofs, there is no question & answer that will tell me whether they actually are or are not a convicted felon.

I'm just personally very touchy about not wanting a firearm I have owned to be used by a criminal to harm the law abiding. I've spent way too much time and effort over the years helping to train good, law-abiding people to be able to defend against the goofs -- I don't want to risk inadvertently helping a goof. Yes, a CHL holder could turn around and knowingly sell to a goof, but the odds are pretty darn low.

 

[Utah]

It is customary in Texas to give deep discounts to those with a CHL. I'll be over soon to pick out which guns I want

I'm a little embarrassed to say I've never made a profit on a gun, even though I have bought many at a deep discount. I've been in the GSSF program for years, which allows me to buy one Glock per year at police pricing plus $30 or so. I don't buy guns with the intent to sell them, but there are friends and family out there who I sold a Glock to for what I got it for (or even less).

In Utah, most of the population is up north and within 2-3 hours drive. I have to remind myself just how BIG Texas is, and that many of y'all are pretty far away. I'm in Austin, so I'm kinda central.

 

[Glockster69]

There is the guy with prison tats and meth stains that would jump out at me as "high risk", but there are also those guys dressed nicely and well-groomed who will turn around and knowingly sell to the disallowed.

With that logic you could not sell a car for fear someone, some where down the line, may use it in a bank robbery.

While I would not like a firearm I sold to be used criminally, if I did due diligence during the sale I am not responsible for its future use.