Gun in car at worksite

JGW006

New Member
TGT Supporter
Apr 17, 2021
22
3
McKinney
Take your ball and go home.
Guys, I did not mean to kick a hornets nest.

It does not matter to me who believes what (that is the Libertarian in me). I do think I know a little about what I am talking about. I have practiced law almost 30 years; I have taken continuing legal education on these very issues; and been a gun owner for longer. Does that make me correct? Nope. It only means I may have some education and perspective on the issues that others may not have.

The discussion of rights versus civil liberties, what is constitutional and what is not, what should be constitutional and what should not, whether a constitutional right should be read more broadly or more narrowly, etc etc is is certainly interesting to discuss, but not worth anyone getting their dander raised over it.

At the end of the day we all share a common hobby and common interests.

Best regards,

JGW
 

mongoose

Active Member
Sep 10, 2012
375
43
nm
Guys, I did not mean to kick a hornets nest.

It does not matter to me who believes what (that is the Libertarian in me). I do think I know a little about what I am talking about. I have practiced law almost 30 years; I have taken continuing legal education on these very issues; and been a gun owner for longer. Does that make me correct? Nope. It only means I may have some education and perspective on the issues that others may not have.

The discussion of rights versus civil liberties, what is constitutional and what is not, what should be constitutional and what should not, whether a constitutional right should be read more broadly or more narrowly, etc etc is is certainly interesting to discuss, but not worth anyone getting their dander raised over it.

At the end of the day we all share a common hobby and common interests.

Best regards,

JGW
Don’t worry.....I ate a Snikers bar.
 

cycleguy2300

Well-Known
Mar 19, 2010
1,670
113
Austin, Texas
They don’t disappear. Constitutional rights are protections from the government, not from private entities. If you want constitutional rights to apply to private persons / entities, then a constitutional amendment is needed.

But, be careful what you wish for, because that proposed amendment would apply not just to the 2A or to what you care about, but to everyone, everywhere:

- A doctor is now compelled to provide an abortion (easy example),even if the doctor is fundamentally, morally opposed?

- I can you you and your spouse for not inviting me to your 4th of July bbq in your backyard? Even if I don’t win that case against you, how much of your savings are you going to spend defending yourself?

- 41 year old man gets to sue The parents of a 15-year-old girl for age discrimination when they won’t let the girl date the 41-year-old man?

Respectfully,

JGW
All your examples involve someone else DOING something for someone else.

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cycleguy2300

Well-Known
Mar 19, 2010
1,670
113
Austin, Texas
Let me ask this then. Exactly what is private property?
At a bbq party, the owner individually selects the attendees. Not so in walmart...

If it is a public space, to be generally free for all to access, MY PERSONAL RIGHT to be able to defend myself as I see fit should not be usurped by it being "private" property. The private owners chose to give up certain of their rights by allowing the public to have access.

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cycleguy2300

Well-Known
Mar 19, 2010
1,670
113
Austin, Texas
And if the Constitution only applies to government actions, then businesses can ban people from their premises based on race? Or make people of a certain race use the back door only?
Or a business could govern the idealogy of those who enter..

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cycleguy2300

Well-Known
Mar 19, 2010
1,670
113
Austin, Texas
Those are civil rights, which on the face of them seem very similar to Constitutional rights, but are very different.

Now, if you could ever have law-abiding gun owners, classed as a class of protected citizens, like being black, or female, or gay, then you might get the protection of civil rights violations for legally carrying a firearm.
So civil rights aren't based in the constitution and DO trump private property rights???

I don't follow your logic.

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cycleguy2300

Well-Known
Mar 19, 2010
1,670
113
Austin, Texas
I'm sorry they are not.





Now these are written by lawyers addressing the legal differences between civil rights and constitutional rights. These are not just legal opinions, but based upon current laws.
You're just wrong. If you are unlawfully arrested or searched, your remedy is a CIVIL RIGHTS LAWSUIT arguing that your civil rights guaranteed under the 4th amendment were violated.

What is your training in law?

I freely admit I have only moderate training, but still more formal training in constitutional law than 99% of the USA not members of the bar.

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cycleguy2300

Well-Known
Mar 19, 2010
1,670
113
Austin, Texas
If you believe I'm incorrect, please then show me ANY legal case, or finding, or law that says what you are saying.

I'll save you the trouble. I looked for it years ago. It's not there. Part of the reason I searched this is, my brother and I own a small business, that is open to the public. Some years ago, this same discussion came up about us placing 30.06 or 30.07 signs on the doors into the business. Private property and the property owner's rights to set the rules. So did a lot of searching the law, as far as I could find, there is no legal distinction in private property, and private property that is open, or accessible to the public.
Public property isnt defined in the PC, but a public place is:

Texas PC 1.07 (40) "Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.


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