Gun in car at worksite

[Axxe55]

From the first article
The sources of civil law in the United States are the United States Constitution, ...

They are similar and in some ways depend upon each other, but in the legal sense, they are different. There are several Constitutional Amendments that address civil rights. So there is an association between civil rights and constitutional rights.

You are telling me there is not one single law that applies to a business open to the public that does not apply to your house?

We aren't going to agree on this. Just have to agree to disagree. I will not be convinced that a business open to the public has the right to negate my 2A rights.

From all I have searched, in the legal terms, there isn't any legal distinction between the two. Think of it this way. What if I operate a business on my property, where my home is located? A small auto repair shop? Or a custom furniture maker? And I have my business open to the general public, and customers come to my house where my shop is located to drop off, or pick up their vehicle I repaired. Or to pick up a custom made coffee table I made for them. I'm open to the public, but it's still private property.

 

[Axxe55]

Private property is closed to the public ( your home as example). If a business refuses to allow you to carry a weapon to protect yourself then the business incurred that responsibility.

Prove it. Show us the law that says that. Show court rulings that show that. I'll bet you can't.

 

[mongoose]

Prove it. Show us the law that says that. Show court rulings that show that. I'll bet you can't.

It wasn’t that hard to find. Look it up yourself.

Prove it. Show us the law that says that. Show court rulings that show that. I'll bet you can't.

Read penal code 30.05.

 

[dooladawg]

Perhaps this sign from another poster would suffice...

 

[mongoose]

Perhaps this sign from another poster would suffice... View attachment 252875

That looks like a good sign to get you in trouble. Beside my willingness to shoot back at a fat , old and slow target.

 

[Axxe55]

It wasn’t that hard to find. Look it up yourself.

Read penal code 30.05.

LMAOF!

Please show us where in the Texas Penal Code 30.05 where it shows a legal distinction in private property, and private property open, or accessible to the public. It's not there!

A business open to the general public, with posted times of operation that they are open, is giving the owner's consent to enter.

So please for of us less educated as yourself, explain in detail where that legal distinction is?

BTW, I have read the TPC 30.05 many, many times.

 

[mongoose]

LMAOF!

Please show us where in the Texas Penal Code 30.05 where it shows a legal distinction in private property, and private property open, or accessible to the public. It's not there!

A business open to the general public, with posted times of operation that they are open, is giving the owner's consent to enter.

So please for of us less educated as yourself, explain in detail where that legal distinction is?

BTW, I have read the TPC 30.05 many, many times.

Try comprehending it.

 

[Axxe55]

Updating the spreadsheet!

Have a nice day mongoose.

 

[mongoose]

Updating the spreadsheet!

Have a nice day mongoose.

Take your ball and go home.

 

[mongoose]

Angry much..? Why are you being such a dick head today?

Not much.......iI’ll take that as constructive criticism.

 

[JGW006]

Take your ball and go home.

Guys, I did not mean to kick a hornets nest.

It does not matter to me who believes what (that is the Libertarian in me). I do think I know a little about what I am talking about. I have practiced law almost 30 years; I have taken continuing legal education on these very issues; and been a gun owner for longer. Does that make me correct? Nope. It only means I may have some education and perspective on the issues that others may not have.

The discussion of rights versus civil liberties, what is constitutional and what is not, what should be constitutional and what should not, whether a constitutional right should be read more broadly or more narrowly, etc etc is is certainly interesting to discuss, but not worth anyone getting their dander raised over it.

At the end of the day we all share a common hobby and common interests.

Best regards,

JGW

 

[mongoose]

Guys, I did not mean to kick a hornets nest.

It does not matter to me who believes what (that is the Libertarian in me). I do think I know a little about what I am talking about. I have practiced law almost 30 years; I have taken continuing legal education on these very issues; and been a gun owner for longer. Does that make me correct? Nope. It only means I may have some education and perspective on the issues that others may not have.

The discussion of rights versus civil liberties, what is constitutional and what is not, what should be constitutional and what should not, whether a constitutional right should be read more broadly or more narrowly, etc etc is is certainly interesting to discuss, but not worth anyone getting their dander raised over it.

At the end of the day we all share a common hobby and common interests.

Best regards,

JGW

Don’t worry.....I ate a Snikers bar.

 

[JGW006]

That made me laugh!

 

[mongoose]

That made me laugh!

Well, I’m on the right track

 

[cycleguy2300]

They don’t disappear. Constitutional rights are protections from the government, not from private entities. If you want constitutional rights to apply to private persons / entities, then a constitutional amendment is needed.

But, be careful what you wish for, because that proposed amendment would apply not just to the 2A or to what you care about, but to everyone, everywhere:

- A doctor is now compelled to provide an abortion (easy example),even if the doctor is fundamentally, morally opposed?

- I can you you and your spouse for not inviting me to your 4th of July bbq in your backyard? Even if I don’t win that case against you, how much of your savings are you going to spend defending yourself?

- 41 year old man gets to sue The parents of a 15-year-old girl for age discrimination when they won’t let the girl date the 41-year-old man?

Respectfully,

JGW

All your examples involve someone else DOING something for someone else.

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[cycleguy2300]

Let me ask this then. Exactly what is private property?

At a bbq party, the owner individually selects the attendees. Not so in walmart...

If it is a public space, to be generally free for all to access, MY PERSONAL RIGHT to be able to defend myself as I see fit should not be usurped by it being "private" property. The private owners chose to give up certain of their rights by allowing the public to have access.

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[cycleguy2300]

And if the Constitution only applies to government actions, then businesses can ban people from their premises based on race? Or make people of a certain race use the back door only?

Or a business could govern the idealogy of those who enter..

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[cycleguy2300]

Those are civil rights, which on the face of them seem very similar to Constitutional rights, but are very different.

Now, if you could ever have law-abiding gun owners, classed as a class of protected citizens, like being black, or female, or gay, then you might get the protection of civil rights violations for legally carrying a firearm.

So civil rights aren't based in the constitution and DO trump private property rights???

I don't follow your logic.

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[cycleguy2300]

I'm sorry they are not.

What is Civil Rights Law? Civil Rights vs Constitutional Rights

Civil rights law focuses on protecting people in society from certain types of discrimination. The sources of civil law in the United States are the United States Constitution, federal and state statutes, judicial opinions, case law, and administrative re

testmaxprep.com

Civil Rights & Constitutional Law | School of Law

www.bu.edu

Civil Rights and Constitution

The Constitution is the bedrock of our most fundamental civil rights. The ABA, through legislative and policy initiatives, raises and addresses complex civil liberties issues and protects individual rights.

www.americanbar.org

Civil Rights & Constitutional Law | School of Law

www.bu.edu

Now these are written by lawyers addressing the legal differences between civil rights and constitutional rights. These are not just legal opinions, but based upon current laws.

You're just wrong. If you are unlawfully arrested or searched, your remedy is a CIVIL RIGHTS LAWSUIT arguing that your civil rights guaranteed under the 4th amendment were violated.

What is your training in law?

I freely admit I have only moderate training, but still more formal training in constitutional law than 99% of the USA not members of the bar.

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[cycleguy2300]

If you believe I'm incorrect, please then show me ANY legal case, or finding, or law that says what you are saying.

I'll save you the trouble. I looked for it years ago. It's not there. Part of the reason I searched this is, my brother and I own a small business, that is open to the public. Some years ago, this same discussion came up about us placing 30.06 or 30.07 signs on the doors into the business. Private property and the property owner's rights to set the rules. So did a lot of searching the law, as far as I could find, there is no legal distinction in private property, and private property that is open, or accessible to the public.

Public property isnt defined in the PC, but a public place is:

Texas PC 1.07 (40) "Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.


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