H&K led the way.

[tonelar]

I have 4x HKs. Nightstand gun is still an old Sig Sauer.

 

[candcallen]

Just another item you kick yourself for not buying when it was 600 bucks in the case with all the doodads.

 

[Axxe55]

Its an extreme apples and oranges comparison.

Far too much credit given to H&K who merely made simple feature improvements upon the real innovation made 50 years earlier.

If it weren't for the turn of the century design developments made by the likes of Mauser, Mannlicker and Colt's, the Mk23 would not exist, certainly not as you now know it.

EXACTLY THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN K &K AND JOHN BROWNINGBROWNING HAD HUNFREDS OF PATENTS ON GUNSAND MANY OF HIS GUN DESIGNS ARE STILL ON THE MARKET CURRENTLY!

 

[Plinker300]

I hated the trigger pull, liked the look and grip, thought disassembly was cool including removing the striker. Paid around $360 for it, and traded it for a Kimber LE in the 90’s. The size hight of the VP70Z was just too large for my likings then.

Kind of regret trading it, but with 5 magazines, the magazine were worth more than the pistol, and Kimbers’ were good back then…

The fist polymer striker pistol… do you know what their current value is?

I agree with all of this- I have no idea of the current value, but I have close to 20 mags..
It was my first pistol, so I’ll probably never sell it. I really wanted a P7M8, which I found and purchased a short time later.

 

[Southpaw]

The one good thing that came out of my days of drinking and reckless abandon was a USP Expert in 45. At the time I was looking at the MK23, but I ultimately went with the Expert, most likely based on price over any actual well reasoned thought.

I've said it before, but the gun shoots better then me. Really, I guess it's just that the grip and weight works better for me then anything else I own, but the thing shoots spot on.

 

[justmax]

Don't overlook the Model 4. Although a semi copy of the Mauser, the interchangeability of cartridges was unique at the time.

Not bad for their first pistol.

 

[TipBledsoe]

It was more the Government Contract Requirements/Requests and who could build a better pistol. Clearly H&K won. Clearly after that design the USP came out with the fist rail, which others changed from Sig to Glock.

Even Browning based his designs on prior pistols and most of them from the 1911 to the High Power were modified and changed by others.

Evolution of firearms.

Clearly you're a tacti-cool boy who already knows all there is to know.

But I'll remind that H&K clearly didn't come around until well after all the dust had settled from the major innovations that I identified, and H&K's innovations were clearly relatively very minor.

 

[zackmars]

The VP70 trigger sucks. Not to mention it's a direct blowback, but the barrel grooves are so deep it reduces 9mm to almost .380 velocity wise.

Plus that front sight... I still want one because of RE2 and 4 though. And aliens.

Wrt the Mk23, it won not because it was a great gun, it won because HK made a gun that worked yet still gave the government every dumb thing they wanted for their Offensive Handgun program.

 

[CavCop]

Clearly you're a tacti-cool boy who already knows all there is to know.

But I'll remind that H&K clearly didn't come around until well after all the dust had settled from the major innovations that I identified, and H&K's innovations were clearly relatively very minor.

Clearly you missed how I mentioned that H&K was following the Government requirements/requests.

But H&K did make the winning pistol for the OHWS contract, and did release the USP that brought those features first to the market and made them mainstream features of many firearms who followed.

As you call me tacti-cool boy, I would argue I am pointing out facts you might not to accept for your own personal bias, hate, and prejudice. My brand loyalty is more to Colt and the 1911. Yes, as retired Infantryman, who served in combat with SEAL’s and SF, and retired as a police officer, I like military weapons, tactical weapons, etc… that’s why I made the video, showing what Colt and H&K made for the OHWS trial. Do you think Colt made a better pistol? That the Colt preformed better?

 

[zackmars]

Clearly you missed how I mentioned that H&K was following the Government requirements/requests.

But H&K did make the winning pistol for the OHWS contract, and did release the USP that brought those features first to the market and made them mainstream features of many firearms who followed.

As you call me tacti-cool boy, I would argue I am pointing out facts you might not to accept for your own personal bias, hate, and prejudice. My brand loyalty is more to Colt and the 1911. Yes, as retired Infantryman, who served in combat with SEAL’s and SF, and retired as a police officer, I like military weapons, tactical weapons, etc… that’s why I made the video, showing what Colt and H&K made for the OHWS trial. Do you think Colt made a better pistol? That the Colt preformed better?

By simple nature of what the OHWS program required, none of the guns were really good.

Yeah the HK works, but damn it's almost as big as a desert eagle

 

[leVieux]

Great video presentation.

But,

I’ll stick with my 1911. . . . .

Thanks anyway.

 

[CavCop]

Clearly you're a tacti-cool boy who already knows all there is to know.

But I'll remind that H&K clearly didn't come around until well after all the dust had settled from the major innovations that I identified, and H&K's innovations were clearly relatively very minor.

I am going to just jump to an assumption that you just read the post title, formed an opinion, and missed the points of this thread.

I think we are on different roads, trying to give each other bad directions. See you at the next rest stop.

 

[baboon]

I agree with all of this- I have no idea of the current value, but I have close to 20 mags..
It was my first pistol, so I’ll probably never sell it. I really wanted a P7M8, which I found and purchased a short time later.

$650.00 -$1200.00for pistols, $65.00 per magazines/

 

[CavCop]

$650.00 -$1200.00for pistols, $65.00 per magazines/

Thanks. Back during the gun ban era, the magazines were going for over $100. I was thinking they might be up to $200 by now. Guess I traded at a good time.

 

[baboon]

By simple nature of what the OHWS program required, none of the guns were really good.

Yeah the HK works, but damn it's almost as big as a desert eagle

I grab my MP5 K over a M23 any day as far as size & weight go.

 

[baboon]

Thanks. Back during the gun ban era, the magazines were going for over $100. I was thinking they might be up to $200 by now. Guess I traded at a good time.

They tend to show up more @ auction of collectors. A friend bought one late 70's shot it & put it away. A few years later he bought one in 9X21IMI. IICR only 400 of those were ever built, with few being imported in to America.

 

[baboon]

Thanks. Back during the gun ban era, the magazines were going for over $100. I was thinking they might be up to $200 by now. Guess I traded at a good time.

My old buddy the Village Idiot bought a Styer GB pistol. His crazy wife thru away all the magazines to the gun. I found him magazines at $165.00 each.

 

[Tnhawk]

It was more the Government Contract Requirements/Requests and who could build a better pistol. Clearly H&K won...

The top in my safe is filled with 1911s, no H&K. By my scoring, 1911 won!

 

[leVieux]

The 1911 may be low-tech; but its faults are minor & very familiar.

It will do the job.

 

[zackmars]

The 1911 may be low-tech; but its faults are minor & very familiar.

It will do the job.

Very very very very familiar.