APOD Firearms

HB1359, introduce today... For Texas Secession

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  • Armybrat

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    Is it an embarrassment to red-blooded Texans?

    Sam Houston's thoughts on secession:

    According to historian Randolph Campbell:

    Houston did everything possible to prevent secession and war, but his first loyalty was to Texas—and the South. Houston refused offers of troops from the United States to keep Texas in the Union and announced on 10 May 1861 that he would stand with the Confederacy in its war effort
    Sam Houston refused to take the loyalty oath to the Confederacy even though it cost him his governorship. He retired to his plantation and died a couple of years later.
    Hardly an endorsement of secession.

    Of himself, he had said: "I wish no prouder epitaph to mark the board or slab that may lie on my tomb than this: 'He loved his country, he was a patriot; he was devoted to the Union.'"
    DK Firearms
     
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    Ozzman

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    I wonder what would happen to all of the military bases here in Texas.
    They are federally run, and EVERYONE on the base is managed and paid for by the feds.

    My town (El Paso) would take a big hit since Ft. Bliss is a big part of our City's economy.
    I figure San Antonio, Kileen, and Austin would also take the brunt here with Texit.
     

    baboon

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    Out here by the lake!
    I wonder what would happen to all of the military bases here in Texas.
    They are federally run, and EVERYONE on the base is managed and paid for by the feds.

    My town (El Paso) would take a big hit since Ft. Bliss is a big part of our City's economy.
    I figure San Antonio, Kileen, and Austin would also take the brunt here with Texit.
    They pay countries to put bases in!
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    Hate to say this, but the bill is political grandstanding by Biederman. I suspect he wants to make a run for Governor in the near future.

    The bill, even if passed, sent to the voters and got an overwhelming ‘for’ doesn’t result in secession, and to ruin everyone’s wet dream, that wouldn’t happen any ways. To paraphrase Antonin Scalia, the question of being able to leave the union was settled in 1864.

    But, I’ll entertain the thought that it did happen for just a minute. So, what happens if....
    1. Fed jobs, assets (to include all those tanks and jets in the Texas Guard) go back to where they came from. Military City USA, VA and all other federal facilities and jobs, Kingsville NAS, Ft Hood, Ft Bliss, all the Pantex shit on the NE corner of Amarillo evaporates, poof....gone. US Border Patrol relocates all their shit to the NM, OK, ArkLaTex borders. We’d probably get to keep those helium reserves in the panhandle, though.

    2. Every FDIC-backed institution leaves the state, so kiss your bank/credit union goodbye. These people along with the peeps in 1. above, go bye-bye because there employers offer to relocate them to the US.

    3. If you think guns/ammo are as rare as unicorn farts right now, imagine what it’s gonna be like when ITAR restrictions prevent 49 states in a different country from exporting shit here. I mean it’ll make Califuckistan look like a veritable rainbow colored Utopia in comparison.

    5. You’d have Greg Abbot as President and Sam Houston would roll over in his grave.

    You obviously did not take the time to actually read the bill, and to see what would actually happen if in fact the referendum was successful in passing.

    1. The bill would setup a committee on the process to leave the union. It would setup a rerganization of our current constitution to incorporate the US. Constitution and remove those parts that would no longer be needed.

    2. it would setup a process to elect new offices, including that of president, Vice President as well as other elected offices. So Greg Abbot would not automatically become the president of the republic of Texas. He would have to be elected.

    3. The committee would make a recommendation on what departments would be needed by the republic of Texas that do not exist now. Such as the Department of Defense, the Texas Postal service, and many other departments and services that would no longer exist.

    4. It would setup a panel to negotiate with the US on social security benefits, travel (similar to EU European travel) as well as what do do with Federal Real Estate owned or leased inside of Texas, as well as federal court system, and federal law enforcement.

    As stated by the bill, the guideline is once passed by vote, secession would take place within 5 years of Jan 1 2023, therefore by Jan 1 2028.

    A state can do whatever it wants, and the Supreme Court can’t stop it. So it doesn’t matter what any Supreme Court justice has ever said. It could mean another civil war. Maybe we will win maybe we won’t. Maybe President Biden, might not do crap for the pussy his is and just let us secede without any loss of life.

    In regards to item 1, The US has contacts for Military bases and assets all over the world. There is nothing that would prevent them with having a contract with the republic of Texas to keep their Military bases here. Including NASA in Houston. We have a NASA base in Australia too. Nothing would be lost. So I call BS on th

    2. many FDIC banks have branches all over the world. There isn’t anything stopping a FDIC insured bank from keeping a branch in Texas. As well as Texas could easily setup its own FDIC. So I can BS on that one too.

    3. Guns and Ammo. Not that big a deal. It’s going to be nearly impossible for the ATF and the FBI to stop Firearms and ammo from crossing the border into Texas if we have open borders. 2nd there are many ammo plants here in Texas, and if we secede many will be built. Same thing goes with Guns and Gun parts. Mossberg for instance is here making shotguns in Texas. So again I call BS. We Texans have the resources and capability that if we need items, we can surely obtain them. In fact. Without the ATF banning imports, we can import guns and ammo from other counties that currently the ATF bans or stops.
    I believe fully, that if the US puts a block on guns and ammo to us. the. We Texans will import more guns and ammo produced in other countries and I’m sure everyone of them will step up to the plate and ship to us.

    Now... none of that what I said above has any bearing on Biedermans objectives or intent. He may very well be grandstanding for whatever reason.

    But to say it’s not possible forTexas to secede is possible, I call horseshit to that.

    Anything is possible, and the only thing guaranteed in life is death and Taxes.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    And the future Texas economy shrinks to poverty pony status when all those people and jobs go away. Trust me, I don’t like it but it is what it is.

    I call BS, I doubt any of those companies would leave, and I doubt any would want to stop doing business.

    I will give you one example...
    Ford for instance wouldn’t leave Texas. We Texans buy more Ford F-150’s then the entire world combined. We buy 58.6% of all the F150’s they roll off the assembly line every year. The F150 represents more then half of all vehicles.

    We Texans represent a huge buying power. So if companies don’t stay and keep their jobs here many of those corporations will end up filing bankruptcy.

    WE can survive on our own.

    however the main point of all this. Isn’t actually to secede but to send a message to Washington and the rest of the 49 states.

    if we cut off production of oil and gas to the rest of the US, cut off high tech production, cut off our agriculture. The rest of the US would suffer a major economic shut down and disaster.

    When it comes to high tech, in 2019 we surpassed California and the rest of the nation combined on High Tech.

    Our GNP of Texas is larger then ever nation in the EU.

    We can survive.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    I wonder what would happen to all of the military bases here in Texas.
    They are federally run, and EVERYONE on the base is managed and paid for by the feds.

    My town (El Paso) would take a big hit since Ft. Bliss is a big part of our City's economy.
    I figure San Antonio, Kileen, and Austin would also take the brunt here with Texit.
    Military bases.... what would happen to them? They would all go contract and leased.

    No different then the Military bases we have in Australia, Japan, Korea, Germany, Italy, Iceland, England, France, Canada, Norway, Finland, Turkey, Greece, UAE, and many many other countries I didn’t list.
     

    Axxe55

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    Military bases.... what would happen to them? They would all go contract and leased.

    No different then the Military bases we have in Australia, Japan, Korea, Germany, Italy, Iceland, England, France, Canada, Norway, Finland, Turkey, Greece, UAE, and many many other countries I didn’t list.

    ID we did secede, that would be assuming the United States wanted to lease those bases from Texas. I think it would all depend upon how relations went. Lots of If's IMO.

    I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't see it being as easy as you are laying it out to be.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    This is geopolitical truth far beyond what most people can comprehend. When it comes to the economic side of the equation, Texas could easily stand on it's own. Hell, we've got the Permian Basin and we know how to frack. If the Saudis could become filthy rich off just one asset, our much more diversified economy could soar.

    Disengaging from the federal (mostly regulatory) structure would be very difficult, though. So let's take a look at the examples cited by toddnjoyce. There are a million more problems that would have to be addressed but let's start with these.
    Texas should seize and nationalize Pantex. There's nothing that more effectively keeps the big boys from kicking over your sand castle than equipping your small military with a few really big bombs.
    The FDIC backing would go away but would those banks want to abandon the Texas market? Many of them do business all over the world; Texas would be no different for them. Some would close but for most staying open in Texas would be a valid business strategy.
    There are plenty of countries that would be thrilled to trade us guns and ammo for petroleum. Hell, there are some who would build us a manufacturing plant or two. I'd be happy to write an invitation to Lapua to set up production facilities on some former military base or section thereof that we could give them.
    Excuse me while I go throw up. :)

    Look, let me be clear.

    None of this is going to happen.

    We don't have a group of founding fathers ready to go with the vision and morality to make a success of it. I think everyone knows that.

    But it sure is a fun thought experiment.

    I agree with most of what your saying. Yet as I said in my reply to his post. He obviously didn’t read the bill. I do agree we don’t currently have the morality and gumption and strength needed in anyone currently to do what is needed to restart the Republic of Texas again.

    Greg Abbot would not automatically become the President. He would have to be elected.

    I don’t know if it’s political grandstanding or not. What I do feel like it is, is a message of warning to Washington and to the rest of the US that Texans are NOT happy with what’s going on. Maybe they will correct their ways maybe they won’t.

    many in Washington know exactly how important Texas is to the Economy of the US. Many know the negative effect it will have if Texas were to secede.

    Howrver, many here are forgetting a few things. Many other states would secede and join us. But we are the powerhouse. If we can get it started many will follow. Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas may just join us. That right there would create a major player.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    I would like to point out a fact about the US revolution. During that whole conflict till we won our independence. There was a huge percentage of Americans back then that supported the British and didn’t want independence.

    It won’t take the majority of Texans to stand up to make this happen. Other the. To have the majority vote yes to seceding.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    I forgot to add another thing, ditch the US dollar and adopt the Chinese Yuan, if they're going to manipulate their currency the least we could do is adopt it and benefit from it. Again this idea sounds crazy to most of you, but from an economics perspective it's a brilliant strategy.

    If you read the bill, if it’s voted for and passes. One of the items listed is to decide to use the US dollar, another currency, or to start our own,
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    Most people who yell secession, haven't thought about the end game on the chess board.

    One question that quickly comes to mind- Where we gonna get our billions of dollars for a military? Who will be our military? Nukes? Fighter jets? Subs? How would we keep ourselves from just becoming a proxy war country?

    Who says we need it? Switzerland has done a great job of being a neutral country throughout WW1 and WW2 and their military budget is less then the budget of our Texas Rangers.
    if we pledge to be neutral. We won’t need much of a military.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    Would some of you stop and read the actual bill! Many of your questions and thoughts and ideas have been spelled out to some degree.
    Such as elections, currency, federal property, social security, citizenship, banking, etc...
     

    Axxe55

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    I would like to point out a fact about the US revolution. During that whole conflict till we won our independence. There was a huge percentage of Americans back then that supported the British and didn’t want independence.

    It won’t take the majority of Texans to stand up to make this happen. Other the. To have the majority vote yes to seceding.

    That is quite true. Even Ben Franklin was one of the last hold-outs for going to war with the British. He tried against all hope to negotiate terms with England up until he signed the Declaration of Independence.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    It could make sense from a bargaining point, perspective, though.

    It is my personal belief that this is a needed tactic in sending a real message to Washington and the other 49 states that we Texans are pissed and not happy with the current circumstances and that we refuse to tolerate any BS that the Democrat controlled washington attempt throw at us.

    This bill actually goes along with 2-3 other bills. The Texas. Sovereignty Act, and the 2nd amendment protection act as well as another act. All of which if passed are meant to send a big FU to Biden and Washington DC.

    If you read all 4 bills, including this one. There is a requirement in all 4 bills to send notice to the president and to congress that these bills have passed.

    So even if all 4 bills have no legal leg to stand on even in the US Supreme Court, and can’t truly be binding. What message It would truly send to the rest of the Nation is that Texas is pissed, Texas Is not happy.

    It may come down to civil war.

    But if As Texans don’t do something things will only get worse. Legal battles in our federal courts are not working. We are loosing.

    So unless you like what the democrats and Biden are going to do, are doing and wanting to do. You will have to do something to stop them...

    So now I ask you.... what are YOU willing to do. If you don’t believe secession is the answer?
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    ID we did secede, that would be assuming the United States wanted to lease those bases from Texas. I think it would all depend upon how relations went. Lots of If's IMO.

    I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't see it being as easy as you are laying it out to be.

    Nothing is easy. Living with democrats BS won’t be easy either.

    but if we don’t do something... then you will have to accept the life that he liberal democrats and Biden give us. Law suits are loosing, we are loosing in the courts, and if the democrats pack the courts. We won’t have any other recourse then to secede or accept the world the liberals give us.

    We are coming to the point where our only recourse is secede, or civil war.

    Waiting for another election maybe to late.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    ^^^ This bears repeating.

    The bill is a lot of damned nonsense and an embarrassment to any red-blooded American.
    Sam Houston knew better too.

    That is all I will say about it.

    So what’s your answer to stopping Biden and the democrats?

    It’s not Court battles, we have lost several court battles, and they are about to pack the courts.

    Wait till the next election and HOPE it’s not a fraudulent election again? It might be to late in 4 years.

    or have you already just given up and are willing to live under the crap that democrats and Biden give us?

    I don’t like the idea of seceding or of civil war either. But I honestly don’t see much of choice as to other options we have?

    Do you? Or will you be happy with the status quo? If they tax 75% of your Income, if they come to take your guns, or tell you that you can’t leave the house with them, if you loose your job, or your home to an illegal. Etc...
     

    Geezer

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    I will give you one example...
    Ford for instance wouldn’t leave Texas. We Texans buy more Ford F-150’s then the entire world combined. We buy 58.6% of all the F150’s they roll off the assembly line every year. The F150 represents more then half of all vehicles.

    Not wanting to argue, I just want to know where you found that percentage?
     

    TXAZ

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    It could be a serious question.
    But Perry brought up the issue in the face of Obama 5 years ago and the consensus was it was a no go.
    (but we would arguably be the first or second strongest nuclear (weapons) power in the world, wouldn’t have to put up with the likes of Schumer and Pelosi, wouldn’t have to support bailouts of poorly mismanaged states, .....)
     

    Axxe55

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    IF, (and a huge IF!) Texas did secede the United States, I suspect just like in beginning of the Civil War between the States, that other states will follow suit and join Texas in seceding the United States.

    If that were to happen, it would put a greater power in Texas, and all the states that followed in our footsteps of secession. If that were to happen, it would give us greater bargaining power, and standing in the global world of business, trade, diplomacy and other things. World recognition.
     

    Vaquero

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    It could be a serious question.
    But Perry brought up the issue in the face of Obama 5 years ago and the consensus was it was a no go.
    (but we would arguably be the first or second strongest nuclear (weapons) power in the world, wouldn’t have to put up with the likes of Schumer and Pelosi, wouldn’t have to support bailouts of poorly mismanaged states, .....)
    Or suffer under a crooked administration placed by a rigged election.
     
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