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  • Tcruse

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    If her name, home and car was on the warrant, wouldn't that tell us that she had been investigated and that she was involved in whatever the police were executing the warrant for?

    Just asking a question so don't jump my shit.
    Apparently, the officers that served the warrant were not the same officers that were involved with the case, so they had only one limited briefing prior to taking action.
    The accepted version is that Ms Taylor was not suspected of any crime but just the primary person on the lease.
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    ZX9RCAM

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    A common "home invasion" ploy matches police action in this case ? What "home invasion ploy" would that be ? I don't know of any home invasions that include knocking on the door and identifying that you are the police.

    The whole idea of a no knock warrant is to prevent giving the occupants enough time to call 911, or destroy drugs, or go get your gun, or anything else.

    The officers really don't have the option to refuse to go along with these orders, especially if they are ordered and directed by there superiors.
    Have you seriously never heard of this happening?
     

    cycleguy2300

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    The problem is that one of the common "home invasion" ploys matches the police actions in this case. Now, the police were absolutely wrong to serve the search warrant in the middle of the night and absolutely wrong break the door down. The people inside the apartment had every right defend their "castle".
    If the police would have approached the event in a way that allowed the people inside to understand that a search warrant was legally being served and given the opportunity to verify the claim with a 911 call, this would never have been news and no shots should have been fired.

    This is just a much smaller case of the Waco incident. When is our government going to learn from such mistakes?

    The fact that Ms Taylor was killed and a police officer wounded is certainly not good, but not really the important part of this discussion. Police officers need to stop such illogical actions and refuse to "go along" with such orders. I thing that the Grand Jury returned the right verdict.
    Common? Home invasions are not common, and I have never been to one where the "victim" said they claimed to be policr.
    Show me some numbers...

    "Home invasions" are not random, they are almost ALWAYS targeting drugs or drug money.

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    cycleguy2300

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    Otherwise, a reasonable citizen might rightfully assume that criminals are attacking.

    Thankfully, that's not how it works. It's why its a felony to claim to be police/sheriff when you are not.

    If you want to get all self-righteous about something that won't happen, go ahead. There is a reason it makes the news when someone (like recently in Fl) act like a cop when they are in fact not.

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    cycleguy2300

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    " Folks whine about no knock warrants, but the element of surprise saves lives. " I can understand that could be true in some limited cases. However, our justice system must always assume innocent unless by due process guilt is proven.
    Nothing about a no-knock warrant presumes guilt.

    As soon as the door opens there are continuous, loud announcements of "POLICE, SEARCH WARRANT" or a variation thereof. They don't breach and enter without letting it be very clear who they are. They just don't telegraph whats about to happen.

    No-knocks are rearded as afurther violation of privacy beyond that of a normal search warrant and therefore to get a no-knock you have to articulate why it is needed to the judge.


    Surprise saves lives.

    Our dearest Erwin,

    On 6JUNE44 we will assault the Atlantic wall in the area of Normandy, between Cherbourg and La Harve. We kindly ask your cooperation in this matter and request vacation of the region or peaceful surrender of the units under your command.

    Sincerely yours,
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    Shady

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    Nothing about a no-knock warrant presumes guilt.

    As soon as the door opens there are continuous, loud announcements of "POLICE, SEARCH WARRANT" or a variation thereof. They don't breach and enter without letting it be very clear who they are. They just don't telegraph whats about to happen.

    No-knocks are rearded as afurther violation of privacy beyond that of a normal search warrant and therefore to get a no-knock you have to articulate why it is needed to the judge.


    Surprise saves lives.

    Our dearest Erwin,

    On 6JUNE44 we will assault the Atlantic wall in the area of Normandy, between Cherbourg and La Harve. We kindly ask your cooperation in this matter and request vacation of the region or peaceful surrender of the units under your command.

    Sincerely yours,
    Dave and Bernard

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    come on you mean the cops don't pick the lock sneak in and put there guns to the heads of occupants and scream we gotcha sucker in hopes they go for a gun so they can shoot them down.

    I thought that is what a no knock was all about

    <SARCASIM>
     

    benenglish

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    I realize this is tangential to the core of this thread, but...
    The officers really don't have the option to refuse to go along with these orders, especially if they are ordered and directed by there superiors.
    It does the police no favors to assume they are automatons without self-determination, just as it does them no favors to assume they're all evil. Both positions are quite wrong.
     

    Tcruse

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    I get both sides of the issue.

    But does letting the criminal run amuck till he screws up again cause more damage than the innocent people who get hurt from a no knock on the wrong house. I have no sympathy for anyone who is hurt on a warrant being delivered to the correct place.


    I do not know the numbers or statistics of the good guys hurt but I am guessing its a lot like the numbers of unarmed innocent black people killed by the police each year. Its to many but its not enough to change police tactics.

    Its ok to disagree on a subject I do that with a lot of people lol
    Correct location or not, everyone is innocent until due process is complete and rules differently.
     

    Tcruse

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    IF he does, why didn't he register in 1986, and then it would have been legal for him to own?

    Whether I, or you agree with the laws is irrelevant. We still have to abide ny them just the same.
    Yes and no. The exact reason we have three branches of government. The courts are suppose to weed out such laws. Maybe if Trump can get a good set of judges in place, NFA will be gone.
     

    Tcruse

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    It wasn’t a no knock raid. They knocked so loud even the neighbor can out.

    They announced who they were. Neighbors confirmed this. The whole damn neighborhood could apparently hear it, yet somehow those in the house couldn’t.

    No knocks are irrelevant to this case. That narrative was a lie.


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    Well, one neighbor stated they heard it. However, several other neighbors claimed they did not hear anything until the door was knocked down and the shooting began. If the announcement was done in a professional manner, it would have been repeated until the people inside acknowledged the announcement.
     

    Tcruse

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    A common "home invasion" ploy matches police action in this case ? What "home invasion ploy" would that be ? I don't know of any home invasions that include knocking on the door and identifying that you are the police.

    The whole idea of a no knock warrant is to prevent giving the occupants enough time to call 911, or destroy drugs, or go get your gun, or anything else.

    The officers really don't have the option to refuse to go along with these orders, especially if they are ordered and directed by there superiors.
    The stats that I have heard quoted by firearm trainers is about 60% of home invasions are accomplished in that manner. Usually with fake badges, uniforms and other materials. That is why you call 911 (e.g. local police) and get confirmation before allowing officers entrance.
     

    Tcruse

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    gambler

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    The stats that I have heard quoted by firearm trainers is about 60% of home invasions are accomplished in that manner. Usually with fake badges, uniforms and other materials. That is why you call 911 (e.g. local police) and get confirmation before allowing officers entrance.
    I can really think of only one reply to that stat....I don't buy it !
     

    cycleguy2300

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    The stats that I have heard quoted by firearm trainers is about 60% of home invasions are accomplished in that manner. Usually with fake badges, uniforms and other materials. That is why you call 911 (e.g. local police) and get confirmation before allowing officers entrance.
    Hear me out and don't take this personally.

    "Firearms trainer" means they can shoot and teach shooting and it doesn't necessarily follow that they know crap about home invasions or the frequency. I know some in person and on here that might, but I can tell you in the home invasions I have responded to or heard of in a large, well known municipality in Travis County I have never seen or heard of anyone posing as police.

    Home invasion = drug rip. I have yet to go to or hear of a home invasion that wasn't after drugs or drug money.

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    Axxe55

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    There are home invasions for different reasons, with different outcomes at the end of them.

    In Florida years ago, rival drug gangs would pose as cops to conduct a "raid" on a rival to steal their drugs and drug money. Not like the drug dealer was going to call 911 to report the theft, if he was actually left alive. There were even a few cases where dirty cops were doing fake raids, and raids where only part of the drugs and money were actually logged into evidence. The rest were being sold.

    Gang started using the tactic as well to do home invasions, posing as cops conducting a raid on a homeowner, in order to rob them. Many times, these home invasions were very violent, and it seemed that robbery was more of an afterthought, and not the primary goal of the home invasion. Many times, homeowners were beaten, robbed, raped, and in quite a few cases, even killed.
     
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