Here's why we will see registration...

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  • Which do you agree most with?

    • TAX ME BABY! I cant WAIT to register my guns and get my license to show I'm a GOOD citizen!

      Votes: 0 0.0%

    • Total voters
      27

    majormadmax

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    Lynx Defense
     

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    easy rider

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    Not sure I can answer a poll like that. The only one I can agree on is the second answer, but I often take my guns off my property, so that doesn't sound right either. You should have had an answer that states that the 2nd amendment explains my rights and that should be all I need.
     

    JColumbus

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    That was the case in many states for a long time until SCOTUS ruled otherwise and required states offer carry licensing. (Yes, I’m agreeing it’s like driving)

    The debate is whether that is constitutional or not. And it is a debate.


    The issue with your argument about the right to drive on public roads is that it is centered around a right NOT enumerated in the constitution. Because it’s not enumerated it is going to be debated. Much like debates over the “right to healthcare” and what that entails. Naming things and calling them rights, while resting that argument on “not all rights are enumerated” is a dangerous game, and I believe it is being drastically oversimplified. My personal opinion typically falls back to “what can I provide for myself”. Anything outside of that category becomes sketchy.

    I can’t provide myself a large paved road from Dallas to Houston. It’s built using collective funds obtained from tax payers and the rules regulating its use are decided by representatives elected by the tax payer.

    Think I’ve strayed away from the topic. People who don’t like firearms are going to use any and every excuse to go after them. I don’t think drivers licensing or car registration will play a very big role aside from internet argument talking points.

    If the discussion is going to be around cars I think it must first be decided if driving on public roads is really a right. I like these types of discussions. Better had at a coffee table than on the internet. Especially with credible argument that “I paid for it so I have a right to use it”.

    Interesting discussion. Just not sure I agree with the comparison.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Thank you so much for the intellectual post. I absolutely agree with you on all counts. I'm pretty much playing devil's advocate, but not really, because (constitutionality decide) it's hard to look at your points and not say the same for being armed.

    I would NOT be surprised if they said "well we tax payers have to pay cops to carry guns because citizens own guns. Now in order for me to be able to say "BULL SHIT", I have to also agree that that same principle goes for roads. Something like, "well the government would had built roads anyway", or "well you can't REALLY provide your fancy firearms for yourself". Most if not all people can not make pretty much all modern guns, themselves.

    But I agree, and I think a big key in being "more" free with firearms and other rights, we need to push back on things like the license and registration of cars. We should take a stand and say "look, I paid into these roads, I bought a car, I can use it responsibly, and it's not up to the government to tell me I have to PAY A FINE/TAX in order for me to use the PUBLIC'S roads".

    Again, I probably wouldn't go as far as to say there shouldn't be a speed limit, or you can go the wrong way on the other side, but being given permission to use the roads, PRINCIPLY because their argument is "cars are dangerous", is the same as being given permission to use my arms, because my arms are dangerous (not talking about these sticks on both sides of my body).

    I don't know. A lot of folks in this thread so far are indicating this is a stupid discussion and I'm not making sense. I thought I had a good thought exercise and wanted to gain perspective and insight into what other people thought about it. So maybe I'm just making an insane argument... Maybe I'm being an "extremist" as far as freedom in America goes...

    Thanks for the engagement.
     

    JColumbus

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    Not sure I can answer a poll like that. The only one I can agree on is the second answer, but I often take my guns off my property, so that doesn't sound right either. You should have had an answer that states that the 2nd amendment explains my rights and that should be all I need.

    Yea, but I was trying to keep this discussion away from the constitutionality of the whole thing. Hard, I know, if not impossible. I wanted to explore the idea that if we are inherently free, and we the people hold the power, then public roads that we pay to build should be available to use without permission. The bigger point being that the same argument that was used to require license and registration, regardless of the bill of rights, is the same one the left will use to ban and or require the same, for guns.

    Simply that they are "dangerous". I was astonished to see that being the rationale behind the car part. I thought there were actual "reasons".
     

    easy rider

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    Yea, but I was trying to keep this discussion away from the constitutionality of the whole thing. Hard, I know, if not impossible. I wanted to explore the idea that if we are inherently free, and we the people hold the power, then public roads that we pay to build should be available to use without permission. The bigger point being that the same argument that was used to require license and registration, regardless of the bill of rights, is the same one the left will use to ban and or require the same, for guns.

    Simply that they are "dangerous". I was astonished to see that being the rationale behind the car part. I thought there were actual "reasons".
    Because of this country's forefathers, we have those freedoms written into law. It's impossible to explain why we have such freedoms that other countries don't, without bringing the bill of rights into it.
     
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    Younggun

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    Thank you so much for the intellectual post. I absolutely agree with you on all counts. I'm pretty much playing devil's advocate, but not really, because (constitutionality decide) it's hard to look at your points and not say the same for being armed.

    I would NOT be surprised if they said "well we tax payers have to pay cops to carry guns because citizens own guns. Now in order for me to be able to say "BULL SHIT", I have to also agree that that same principle goes for roads. Something like, "well the government would had built roads anyway", or "well you can't REALLY provide your fancy firearms for yourself". Most if not all people can not make pretty much all modern guns, themselves.

    But I agree, and I think a big key in being "more" free with firearms and other rights, we need to push back on things like the license and registration of cars. We should take a stand and say "look, I paid into these roads, I bought a car, I can use it responsibly, and it's not up to the government to tell me I have to PAY A FINE/TAX in order for me to use the PUBLIC'S roads".

    Again, I probably wouldn't go as far as to say there shouldn't be a speed limit, or you can go the wrong way on the other side, but being given permission to use the roads, PRINCIPLY because their argument is "cars are dangerous", is the same as being given permission to use my arms, because my arms are dangerous (not talking about these sticks on both sides of my body).

    I don't know. A lot of folks in this thread so far are indicating this is a stupid discussion and I'm not making sense. I thought I had a good thought exercise and wanted to gain perspective and insight into what other people thought about it. So maybe I'm just making an insane argument... Maybe I'm being an "extremist" as far as freedom in America goes...

    Thanks for the engagement.

    I can provide my own means of acquisition through trade. So I can “provide it for myself”.

    That said, I don’t think the comparison of firearms ownership to driving has much validity. It’s the discussion of what is/isn’t a right that I can enjoy. I think I’ve found a pretty good measuring stick (other may disagree) and testing my ideas helps to refine and simplify them. So instead of arguing why cars and guns are alike, I can argue how they differ in the basic sense.

    I can argue why we follow a uniform standard for the use of public roads (that’s what’s really regulated, not the cars) and not for my firearms.

    Not everyone agrees. I’ve been on the less popular end of the debate when it comes to businesses that restrict carry. But I feel like I can be principled in my conclusions without having to use a double standard to get the conclusion I want.


    For roads, we all “agreed” to pay for them (via our elected officials) and we all agreed to the rules of use (via our elected officials). I don’t see where there is a violation of rights in that specific case.


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    JColumbus

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    I can provide my own means of acquisition through trade. So I can “provide it for myself”.

    That said, I don’t think the comparison of firearms ownership to driving has much validity. It’s the discussion of what is/isn’t a right that I can enjoy. I think I’ve found a pretty good measuring stick (other may disagree) and testing my ideas helps to refine and simplify them. So instead of arguing why cars and guns are alike, I can argue how they differ in the basic sense.

    I can argue why we follow a uniform standard for the use of public roads (that’s what’s really regulated, not the cars) and not for my firearms.

    Not everyone agrees. I’ve been on the less popular end of the debate when it comes to businesses that restrict carry. But I feel like I can be principled in my conclusions without having to use a double standard to get the conclusion I want.


    For roads, we all “agreed” to pay for them (via our elected officials) and we all agreed to the rules of use (via our elected officials). I don’t see where there is a violation of rights in that specific case.


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    Fair enough. If only I had your eloquence.
     
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    Younggun

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    Fair enough. If only I had your eloquence.

    It’s easier for me to clarify my thoughts online. In person the accent kills any eloquence that might try to sneak through. But I really do enjoy the discussion. (Not argument).


    Thanks.


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    Renegade

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    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    Sounds like pretty much exactly what I said.

    The 9th Amendment is the catch-all for rights not enumerated:

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


    The 10th just says the Feds have no say over them.

    Has not worked out well.
     

    Lost Spurs

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    Here is a couple random thoughts from scanning the thread.

    One could buy a bicycle and traverse the nation whilst never obtaining a drivers license. Even locally, you are given a lot of leeway and in some cases, your own lane. You dont have to register, pay fuel tax, follow traffic laws.... (no offence to any bikers here) as a motorcycle guy you fellers are taking your life in your hands.

    I feel it was mentioned but I am not sure, a drivers license issued by a state, even other countries is generally accepted to operate a vehicle on roads in the USA. I have a Texas CHL / LTC. it does not work in some states. Other 3rd world states will not even issue one. This would infer that a federal licensing system would be needed to guarantee that any subject would be allowed to own or possess a firearm. If even one person was denied such license it starts to cross a line where the State is restricting rights.

    In my opinion, the 2nd is clear. I read nowhere that I have a right to own or operate a car. Heck, even 100 years ago most used a horse. I doubt they needed a license. In fact, if you wanted a BAR you could have one of those too. The real issue at hand is that we are being squeezed, just wait until they roll out the social credit score system here. The line should have been drawn years ago. We are just fighting over the scraps we have left.

    AdamT

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    Mohawk600

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    If we go that route, then I can have a machine gun, or tank, or mortar etc. on my property and the government has no say so on that. To take this a step further, if we are going to license and register guns like cars, then I can carry a gun in any state at any time. I am not favoring gun registration, just going with the thread.
    you can have cannon
     
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