Hookers for Obamacare

[Younggun]

So you want to avoid Obama care by having the insurance companies willingly do what ACA does?

That's like avoiding gun control by not owning guns.

You can't insure a car you wrecked a week ago and expect to have the damage fixed, why should health insurance be any different. Why should an insurance company have to insure a race car, because of all the extra safety measures taken on a race track?

 

[Younggun]

I do not have any right to health coverage and I have no "social contract" with anyone to fulfill.

 

[benenglish]

I do not have any right to health coverage...

OK. No argument from me.

...I have no "social contract" with anyone to fulfill.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course you do. You may prefer an alternate vocabulary but you absolutely have a social contract with those around you.

Example? You may not punch anybody in the face just because you don't like their looks. If you do, they have a right to punch back. If they can't, they have a right to call on the collective mechanism by which we all enforce our social contract, the government. IOW, they can call the police and ask that you be arrested. That's a "social contract". You fulfill your social contract every time you keep your fists to yourself, even though you really hate someone's face.

You may not like the term "social contract". Feel free to substitute another. But we all live in one giant social contract with each other, whether you like that term or not.

 

[benenglish]

The point is that they are at a significantly higher risk of contracting a disease inherently due to their line of work.

Completely wrong.

STD's are rampant in the United States, and if you are having sex with strangers (albeit "safe sex") as a career, you're playing Russian roulette with them. The insurance company has to assume that risk and pay out if they issue that policy.

You really don't know anything about how legal, licensed sex work is conducted in this country, do you?

Licensed sex workers do not rely on just "safe sex"; they do a simple but efficient health screening of all clients. Screening for visible symptoms such as sores or rashes is sufficient to weed out the overwhelming majority of infected, contagious clients. Added to safe sex practices, that's enough to reduce the risk of contracting an STD for a licensed sex worker to something significantly lower than the general population.

Sad to say, but the average legal, licensed sex worker is at less of a risk of contracting an STD on the job than the average high school student in this country.

...please explain to me how owning a gun translates into having sex with strangers as far as risk goes.

It doesn't "translate" but it certainly does "compare". Neither activity is dangerous if you know what you're doing. Both groups have a right to take umbrage at other people making unwarranted assumptions about them; we do it here on TGT all the time.

 

[Younggun]

OK. No argument from me.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course you do. You may prefer an alternate vocabulary but you absolutely have a social contract with those around you.

Example? You may not punch anybody in the face just because you don't like their looks. If you do, they have a right to punch back. If they can't, they have a right to call on the collective mechanism by which we all enforce our social contract, the government. IOW, they can call the police and ask that you be arrested. That's a "social contract". You fulfill your social contract every time you keep your fists to yourself, even though you really hate someone's face.

You may not like the term "social contract". Feel free to substitute another. But we all live in one giant social contract with each other, whether you like that term or not.

If you wish to bastardize my choice of who I do and do not punch, so be it. What your describing though, is not a contract. It's simply a series of choices made by 2 people. No contractual agreement of any kind.


Your assertion that this somehow means I am responsible for making sure a whore in Nevada has health insurance sounds more like a socialist contract.

 

[benenglish]

Your assertion that this somehow means I am responsible for making sure a whore in Nevada has health insurance...

I have carefully re-read my posts and I can find no place where I made that assertion. It's her problem, exacerbated by her choice of profession but it's NOT your responsibility (or our collective responsibility) to provide health insurance to her.

I have only asserted that it's not good to make assumptions about people based on their profession.

 

[UncleSamsMisguidedChild]

You really don't know anything about how legal, licensed sex work is conducted in this country, do you?

Licensed sex workers do not rely on just "safe sex"; they do a simple but efficient health screening of all clients. Screening for visible symptoms such as sores or rashes is sufficient to weed out the overwhelming majority of infected, contagious clients. Added to safe sex practices, that's enough to reduce the risk of contracting an STD for a licensed sex worker to something significantly lower than the general population.

Sad to say, but the average legal, licensed sex worker is at less of a risk of contracting an STD on the job than the average high school student in this country.

I'd love to see your statistical data on this claim, because according to the CDC, that data is not collected from sex workers or their clients.

Completely wrong.

How? Why do you think they would have lower risks of contracting disease than normal members of society, I'm certain that the PHD's in Actuarial Sciences who set rates and decline reasons would love to hear it.

 

[UncleSamsMisguidedChild]

Also, if you think a quick look once over is any indication of if someone has a disease you're sadly mistaken.

A herpes carrier not during an outbreak comes to mind right off the top.

 

[Younggun]

I have carefully re-read my posts and I can find no place where I made that assertion. It's her problem, exacerbated by her choice of profession but it's NOT your responsibility (or our collective responsibility) to provide health insurance to her.

I have only asserted that it's not good to make assumptions about people based on their profession.

Post#19

Of course, once they deny enough people, the demand for health coverage will eventually turn to the mechanism-of-last-resort by which we enforce our social contract, the government. We get Obamacare or something like it.

To my way of thinking, that's a sad outcome.

 

[shortround]

So, if I am enrolled in Obama Care and visit a working girl, my STD will be paid for.

Sounds good, let's hit, get cured, and go for more.

 

[TheDan]

I have no "social contract" with anyone to fulfill.

Don't be ridiculous. Of course you do. You may prefer an alternate vocabulary but you absolutely have a social contract with those around you.

Example? You may not punch anybody in the face just because you don't like their looks. If you do, they have a right to punch back. If they can't, they have a right to call on the collective mechanism by which we all enforce our social contract, the government. IOW, they can call the police and ask that you be arrested. That's a "social contract". You fulfill your social contract every time you keep your fists to yourself, even though you really hate someone's face.

Ah, the "social contract"... The BS collectivist justification for government force. How does a person agree to this contract? Who writes this contract?

Now I can only speak for myself, but the reason why I don't go around punching people has nothing to do with the threat of violence from the government if I do. I'm not a psychopath, don't have a pathological compulsion for violence, and try my best to respect the rights of other people. If the only reason you don't go around punching people is because you're afraid of going to jail, I think you should get some counseling and stop projecting your emotions onto others.

Younggun is correct. He has no "social contract" to fulfill and neither do you or I. The "social contract" is a mental construct devised by statists to confuse your reasoning into thinking you need the state looking after you.

 

[benenglish]

Post#19

Wow. I specifically said that was a sad outcome and you somehow misread that to think I'm in *favor* of a collectivist approach to health care?

My command of English is obviously poor. Let me say it again, in different words - When insurance companies screw over enough people, a demand for health care from the government will arise. I'm not saying that's good or bad. It simply is. People, in general, will turn to the government for help when they feel the free market has failed.

 

[benenglish]

The "social contract" is a mental construct devised by statists to confuse your reasoning into thinking you need the state looking after you.

I was pretty specific that the state is the mechanism of last resort, not the thing we look to for care by default.

Feel free to use different words if there's too much baggage attached to "social contract" for your taste. "Common courtesy" comes to mind. I'm sure you can think of others that don't punch your buttons or lead you off on silly sidebars like the notion that it can't be a contract because it isn't explicitly negotiated and personally validated.

But rejecting my basic point - that there are rules for getting along in society and we all more or less obey them - is intellectually dishonest.

 

[benenglish]

I'd love to see your statistical data on this claim, because according to the CDC, ... I'm certain that the PHD's in Actuarial Sciences ...

Do I really need to post a link to Carl Sagan's bologna detector?

 

[benenglish]

Thanks to everyone. This thread has been most enlightening.

 

[V-Tach]

I really expected some hookers in this thread....and TX69's idea of a Hooker is...........somewhat disappointing...

 

[jrbfishn]

Being someone that actually spent most of my working day around hookers some years ago, Ben has some very valid points and is right about the proffession more than most of you know. The average steet whore, will get more than she is paid for, quick and often. The smart ones that ALWAYS practice safe sex, more so than most of your kids probably will, ARE less likely to get STD's than your kids. And all I saw was assumptions that her illness was sex related. And NO, I do NOT approve of hookers or in any way, Obastard care. But an overhaul of the insurance and medical industries, if done right, I could get behind.

almost forgot, any that think our kids practice safe sex, go sit outside the county health clinic on std day. Such a pretty parade


from a non-recovering coffeeholic

 

[TheDan]

But rejecting my basic point - that there are rules for getting along in society and we all more or less obey them - is intellectually dishonest.

We actually don't need rules to get along. We're social animals and getting along is in our nature. If you can't get along with people without external forces (like our penal system), then you either have an anti-social disorder (your nature is broken) or you're emotionally still a child that requires a parent figure. Rules are made to give people a feeling of security and cement the power and influence of the rule makers. These rules tend to actually go against our nature. It's a big part of why our society tends to raise sociopaths of varying degrees. It's self fulfilling... Unnatural social structures due to rules make us all a little anti-social, which then requires more rules to try suppress anti-social behavior, and that continues ad infinitum.

People, in general, will turn to the government for help when they feel the free market has failed.

We didn't have a free market before hand.

At some point we need to break the cycle of asking our drunken, dysfunctional government to fix things they mucked up in the first place.

 

[jrbfishn]

May not NEED rules but there are six rules on how to get along. The first four are for whayever diety you sub scribe to. The last six are ways for people to get along together, no matter the religion. Trouble is, too many tend to have trouble following them, especially the government.
The problem with being social animals, and we are still animals to an extent, most of them are what we call PREY.


from a non-recovering coffeeholic