Houston Area Shooting, Terrible Loss of Life

[juwaba98]

To hell with the stool. I vote for perching them atop a jackass (for symbolism) and hotshotting it so that perhaps it'll kick 'em as it tries to get the hell outta Dodge.

 

[40Arpent]

And I ask you again, is deadly force justified to prevent or stop a trespassing?

Oh-oh-oh, I know the answer...ask me, ask me!!!

 

[Big country]

To hell with the stool. I vote for perching them atop a jackass (for symbolism) and hotshotting it so that perhaps it'll kick 'em as it tries to get the hell outta Dodge.

You're right a jackass would be a better, more symbolic temporary seat.
And I guess I'll make txinvesigator happy and answer his question! Not unless you have reasonable fear for your life or yes. The right answer is my answer.

 

[randy4bb]

liberty co

hey yall ,
here's my $0.02 worth;

what they look like should have no bearing on guilt/innocence or punishment

gayle & sheila muhs were indicted on aggravated assualt with a deadly weapon; both bonds at $25 k

an additional charge of aggravated assualt wdw was charged to sheila muhs on monday morn; bond set at $500 k

it has been determined that the vehicles were on government/public property not private

chief deputy ken defoors interview can be acccessed on

http:// i-dineout.com

along with other reports and pics of the kids etc

location: PR 4422 near lower westlake subdivision ; levee in question is on lake timberlake off of cr 443

randy4bb from liberty co

 

[JKTex]

Not to be contrary but I'm not passing judgement until all the facts come out. The most unfortunate part of this is the boy getting killed.

"They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them." That's what Sheila Muhs told the 911 dispatcher.

Anything else?

 

[txinvestigator]

You're right a jackass would be a better, more symbolic temporary seat.
And I guess I'll make txinvesigator happy and answer his question! Not unless you have reasonable fear for your life or yes. The right answer is my answer.

Being in fear of, reasonable fear of, etc appear nowhere in the use of force laws.

 

[Starker]

OK, I'll jump in. The answer to txinvestigator's question is NO. You are not justified in using deadly force to prevent or stop trespassing. However, if the trespasser begins to commit another crime that justifies the use of deadly force, such as assault, you are justified in using deadly force.

Did I get it right?

 

[txinvestigator]

OK, I'll jump in. The answer to txinvestigator's question is NO. You are not justified in using deadly force to prevent or stop trespassing. However, if the trespasser begins to commit another crime that justifies the use of deadly force, such as assault, you are justified in using deadly force.

Did I get it right?

Does Texas justify the use of deadly force against an assault?

NO. Texas is very specific. You might be justified to use deadly force when you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the others use or attempt of unlawful DEADLY FORCE against you, or to prevent the IMMINENT commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

Texas also justifies the use of deadly force to protect property when when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and he reasonably believes that: the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

 

[markfh]

"They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them." That's what Sheila Muhs told the 911 dispatcher.

Anything else?

Since all the information we have is coming from the media I'll wait for something more official before I pass judgement. They are after all anybody accused of a crime is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Not by the media but by the courts.

To answer the question "And I ask you again, is deadly force justified to prevent or stop a trespassing? " I'll say again it depends on the circumstances. That is a decision for the individual at the time.

Could there be legal consequences? Of course. Being alive to potentially suffer those consequences is the key.

 

[40Arpent]

I'll say again it depends on the circumstances.

Read the law.

If the "circumstances" justify use of deadly force, then you are NOT using deadly force to stop some from trespassing; you are using deadly force "when you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the others use or attempt of unlawful DEADLY FORCE against you, or to prevent the IMMINENT commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery." Show me where trespassing, in and of itself as posed in the question by TxInvestigator, plays into this.

 

[markfh]

Read the law.

If the "circumstances" justify use of deadly force, then you are NOT using deadly force to stop some from trespassing; you are using deadly force "when you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the others use or attempt of unlawful DEADLY FORCE against you, or to prevent the IMMINENT commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery." Show me where trespassing, in and of itself as posed in the question by TxInvestigator, plays into this.

No kidding. Geesshh...

Now show me where I said trespassing was the ONLY aspect of an event that would justify using deadly force. Why to hell do you think I qualified my statement.

 

[Starker]

Does Texas justify the use of deadly force against an assault?

NO. Texas is very specific. You might be justified to use deadly force when you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the others use or attempt of unlawful DEADLY FORCE against you, or to prevent the IMMINENT commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

I should have been more specific. I was referring to an assault in which you reasonably believed it was immediately necessary to prevent the others use of unlawful deadly force.

The point being that the crime had moved from him trespassing to he's trying to kill you.

 

[markfh]

The point being that the crime had moved from him trespassing to he's trying to kill you.

Or you reasonably think he's trying to hurt or kill you or others.
There's considerable latitude in the law as evidenced by past events.

 

[txinvestigator]

Or you reasonably think he's trying to hurt or kill you or others.
There's considerable latitude in the law as evidenced by past events.

Trying to "hurt" you is not a justification to use deadly force.

 

[txinvestigator]

No kidding. Geesshh...

Now show me where I said trespassing was the ONLY aspect of an event that would justify using deadly force. Why to hell do you think I qualified my statement.

Trespassing is not ANY aspect of the event that would justify deadly force.

 

[40Arpent]

Now show me where I said trespassing was the ONLY aspect of an event that would justify using deadly force. Why to hell do you think I qualified my statement.

My point, as TI has already stated, is that trespassing does not factor at all into the "use of deadly force" equation.

 

[Starker]

My point, as TI has already stated, is that trespassing does not factor at all into the "use of deadly force" equation.

EXACTLY!

 

[smschulz]

Trying to "hurt" you is not a justification to use deadly force.

What is your defintion of "hurt"?

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

What is your defintion of "hurt"?

His definition doesn't matter. YOURS should be 'a reasonable and immediate fear for your life or the life of a third person.'

 

[txinvestigator]

What is your defintion of "hurt"?

Show me in the penal code where deadly force is justified if someone tries to "hurt" you.

If I punch you in the arm, it will "hurt" you. The penal code allows deadly force to prevent the other from using unlawful deadly force against you.