How Do You View Force on Force?

Jon Payne

Well-Known
Nov 16, 2010
1,990
83
SE TX/Gulf Coast
Suarez_Force_on_Force_5__41400.1544727640.jpg


Knowing how to run your pistol and being able to hit what you're shooting at are both highly important to being able to stop a bad guy. The problem I see is paper and steel are very limited to the amount of feedback and realism they provide. Through my military and law enforcement training I've found force on force to be a valuable tool. It's not as gratifying as shooting small groups on paper or ringing steel and you can do everything right and still get "stung". I find there's no better way to test your tactics, techniques, and carry gear (minus real gun and ammo). I realize training is not a huge part of TGT, but I'd like some feedback on your thoughts of FoF and why you would or wouldn't participate in such an activity.
 

Gilbertc13

Active Member
Sep 27, 2018
936
93
Katy
I’d love to do force on force training. I’m particularly interested in hand to hand as well as weapon retention. Seen a bunch of videos online using SIRT guns and pads of guy just beating the shit out of each other while trying to take or retain the gun.

There’s a guy who posts them on Instagram and YouTube named truexodus or Parker fawbush. Look him up. Some cool stuff


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Jon Payne

Well-Known
Nov 16, 2010
1,990
83
SE TX/Gulf Coast
I’d love to do force on force training. I’m particularly interested in hand to hand as well as weapon retention. Seen a bunch of videos online using SIRT guns and pads of guy just beating the shit out of each other while trying to take or retain the gun.

There’s a guy who posts them on Instagram and YouTube named truexodus or Parker fawbush. Look him up. Some cool stuff


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H2H and initial FoF are two different animals. There are courses that combine the two, but right now I'm sticking to FoF with no combatives. These FoF courses use either green gas airsoft pistols or sims such as UTM and conversions in a very controlled environment.
 

Gilbertc13

Active Member
Sep 27, 2018
936
93
Katy
H2H and initial FoF are two different animals. There are courses that combine the two, but right now I'm sticking to FoF with no combatives. These FoF courses use either green gas airsoft pistols or sims such as UTM and conversions in a very controlled environment.
I used to play paintball and airsoft growing up. I’d love to try my hand at more of that and train with what I know now. I’ve learned a lot more from researching tactics. If there were courses readily available near me I wouldn’t think twice about signing up.

In the end, I’d rather be more prepared than underprepared. Knowing I might be hit and learning how to deal with staying in the fight is a big deal.

Jon if you’re thinking of offering a course of this style, I think it might be very popular


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birddog

bullshit meter
Mar 4, 2008
3,602
113
nunya
The problem I see is paper and steel are very limited to the amount of feedback and realism they provide. Through my military and law enforcement training I've found force on force to be a valuable tool.
You are correct on both points.

I’ve trained on paper and silhouettes (until I was sick of doing it) as well as using MILES and drilled in kill houses for MOUT/Free Flow/FISH/Aircraft HR & Recovery, etc. and everyone was of the opinion that the best training on the planet for the operator to be force on force.

A number of years ago I worked with training Marines at unused base housing at the old Carlswell AFB using air soft replica firearms. The marines were tasked with clearing the housing area using MOUT tactics. We played the role of OpFor and both the marines and our group had an absolute blast with the excersize and everyone walked away much wiser for the experience, even the old farts.

Something as simple as sidearm to long arm or weak side to strong transitions works to develops muscle memory. It goes a long way, whether you’re a pro or enjoy the excitement of 3 gun.
 
Last edited:

Jon Payne

Well-Known
Nov 16, 2010
1,990
83
SE TX/Gulf Coast
I used to play paintball and airsoft growing up. I’d love to try my hand at more of that and train with what I know now. I’ve learned a lot more from researching tactics. If there were courses readily available near me I wouldn’t think twice about signing up.

In the end, I’d rather be more prepared than underprepared. Knowing I might be hit and learning how to deal with staying in the fight is a big deal.

Jon if you’re thinking of offering a course of this style, I think it might be very popular


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I do offer courses of this type, but I don't advertise them here. To stay within forum rules I'll leave it at that.
 

ekim

Active Member
Nov 11, 2018
540
63
ky
You can't do shit about being old. Getting into shape is another matter.
Not always, if your health problems get in the way.
 

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