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How Do You View Force on Force?

Discussion in 'Training & Competition' started by Jon Payne, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Jon Payne

    Jon Payne Well-Known

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    Suarez_Force_on_Force_5__41400.1544727640.jpg

    Knowing how to run your pistol and being able to hit what you're shooting at are both highly important to being able to stop a bad guy. The problem I see is paper and steel are very limited to the amount of feedback and realism they provide. Through my military and law enforcement training I've found force on force to be a valuable tool. It's not as gratifying as shooting small groups on paper or ringing steel and you can do everything right and still get "stung". I find there's no better way to test your tactics, techniques, and carry gear (minus real gun and ammo). I realize training is not a huge part of TGT, but I'd like some feedback on your thoughts of FoF and why you would or wouldn't participate in such an activity.
     


  2. Gilbertc13

    Gilbertc13 Active Member

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    I’d love to do force on force training. I’m particularly interested in hand to hand as well as weapon retention. Seen a bunch of videos online using SIRT guns and pads of guy just beating the shit out of each other while trying to take or retain the gun.

    There’s a guy who posts them on Instagram and YouTube named truexodus or Parker fawbush. Look him up. Some cool stuff


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  3. ekim

    ekim Active Member

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    Up close and personal means your defenses suck and it time to run like hell. I prefer force on force at longer distances, like sniper distance.
     
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  4. Jon Payne

    Jon Payne Well-Known

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    H2H and initial FoF are two different animals. There are courses that combine the two, but right now I'm sticking to FoF with no combatives. These FoF courses use either green gas airsoft pistols or sims such as UTM and conversions in a very controlled environment.
     
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  5. Gilbertc13

    Gilbertc13 Active Member

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    I used to play paintball and airsoft growing up. I’d love to try my hand at more of that and train with what I know now. I’ve learned a lot more from researching tactics. If there were courses readily available near me I wouldn’t think twice about signing up.

    In the end, I’d rather be more prepared than underprepared. Knowing I might be hit and learning how to deal with staying in the fight is a big deal.

    Jon if you’re thinking of offering a course of this style, I think it might be very popular


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  6. birddog

    birddog bullshit meter

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    You are correct on both points.

    I’ve trained on paper and silhouettes (until I was sick of doing it) as well as using MILES and drilled in kill houses for MOUT/Free Flow/FISH/Aircraft HR & Recovery, etc. and everyone was of the opinion that the best training on the planet for the operator to be force on force.

    A number of years ago I worked with training Marines at unused base housing at the old Carlswell AFB using air soft replica firearms. The marines were tasked with clearing the housing area using MOUT tactics. We played the role of OpFor and both the marines and our group had an absolute blast with the excersize and everyone walked away much wiser for the experience, even the old farts.

    Something as simple as sidearm to long arm or weak side to strong transitions works to develops muscle memory. It goes a long way, whether you’re a pro or enjoy the excitement of 3 gun.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  7. Jon Payne

    Jon Payne Well-Known

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    I do offer courses of this type, but I don't advertise them here. To stay within forum rules I'll leave it at that.
     
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  8. EZ-E

    EZ-E III%er TGT Supporter

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    Force to force will get your blood pumping alot more than paper or steel.
    I would think it is a better drill.





    You must be old & out of shape like me :green:
     
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  9. Jon Payne

    Jon Payne Well-Known

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    You can't do shit about being old. Getting into shape is another matter.
     
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  10. ekim

    ekim Active Member

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    Not always, if your health problems get in the way.
     


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