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How Do You View Force on Force?

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  • Jon Payne

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    Suarez_Force_on_Force_5__41400.1544727640.jpg


    Knowing how to run your pistol and being able to hit what you're shooting at are both highly important to being able to stop a bad guy. The problem I see is paper and steel are very limited to the amount of feedback and realism they provide. Through my military and law enforcement training I've found force on force to be a valuable tool. It's not as gratifying as shooting small groups on paper or ringing steel and you can do everything right and still get "stung". I find there's no better way to test your tactics, techniques, and carry gear (minus real gun and ammo). I realize training is not a huge part of TGT, but I'd like some feedback on your thoughts of FoF and why you would or wouldn't participate in such an activity.
     

    Gilbertc13

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    Katy
    I’d love to do force on force training. I’m particularly interested in hand to hand as well as weapon retention. Seen a bunch of videos online using SIRT guns and pads of guy just beating the shit out of each other while trying to take or retain the gun.

    There’s a guy who posts them on Instagram and YouTube named truexodus or Parker fawbush. Look him up. Some cool stuff


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    Jon Payne

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    I’d love to do force on force training. I’m particularly interested in hand to hand as well as weapon retention. Seen a bunch of videos online using SIRT guns and pads of guy just beating the shit out of each other while trying to take or retain the gun.

    There’s a guy who posts them on Instagram and YouTube named truexodus or Parker fawbush. Look him up. Some cool stuff


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    H2H and initial FoF are two different animals. There are courses that combine the two, but right now I'm sticking to FoF with no combatives. These FoF courses use either green gas airsoft pistols or sims such as UTM and conversions in a very controlled environment.
     

    Gilbertc13

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    H2H and initial FoF are two different animals. There are courses that combine the two, but right now I'm sticking to FoF with no combatives. These FoF courses use either green gas airsoft pistols or sims such as UTM and conversions in a very controlled environment.

    I used to play paintball and airsoft growing up. I’d love to try my hand at more of that and train with what I know now. I’ve learned a lot more from researching tactics. If there were courses readily available near me I wouldn’t think twice about signing up.

    In the end, I’d rather be more prepared than underprepared. Knowing I might be hit and learning how to deal with staying in the fight is a big deal.

    Jon if you’re thinking of offering a course of this style, I think it might be very popular


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    birddog

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    The problem I see is paper and steel are very limited to the amount of feedback and realism they provide. Through my military and law enforcement training I've found force on force to be a valuable tool.

    You are correct on both points.

    I’ve trained on paper and silhouettes (until I was sick of doing it) as well as using MILES and drilled in kill houses for MOUT/Free Flow/FISH/Aircraft HR & Recovery, etc. and everyone was of the opinion that the best training on the planet for the operator to be force on force.

    A number of years ago I worked with training Marines at unused base housing at the old Carlswell AFB using air soft replica firearms. The marines were tasked with clearing the housing area using MOUT tactics. We played the role of OpFor and both the marines and our group had an absolute blast with the excersize and everyone walked away much wiser for the experience, even the old farts.

    Something as simple as sidearm to long arm or weak side to strong transitions works to develops muscle memory. It goes a long way, whether you’re a pro or enjoy the excitement of 3 gun.
     
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    Jon Payne

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    I used to play paintball and airsoft growing up. I’d love to try my hand at more of that and train with what I know now. I’ve learned a lot more from researching tactics. If there were courses readily available near me I wouldn’t think twice about signing up.

    In the end, I’d rather be more prepared than underprepared. Knowing I might be hit and learning how to deal with staying in the fight is a big deal.

    Jon if you’re thinking of offering a course of this style, I think it might be very popular


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    I do offer courses of this type, but I don't advertise them here. To stay within forum rules I'll leave it at that.
     

    vmax

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    I got bored shooting paper and steel
    So I put up some barriers and started doing some run and gun and shooting from cover, kneeling, prone and some unconventional positions like inverse prone(laying on your back)

    Running and then trying to shoot with your elevated heartbeat is a good skill to have. I'm 50 but I'm in excellent shape since I do weights and cardio 5 days a week.

    I have not done true force on force since my time I the military.
     

    EZ-E

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    You can't do shit about being old. Getting into shape is another matter.
    Yeah I've been a desk jockey for the last 15yrs & let my self go....not fat, I still happen to weigh what I did when I got out of boot camp in 93'....160lbs...lol.

    I used to play tournament paintball ...lots of running & gunning drills, back then I was in a lot better shape than I am now.
     

    Sam7sf

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    I’m particularly interested in hand to hand
    I’m still looking to get some people together to help me for testing and in return said people get free training lol. Pm me if you’re interested in free jui jitsu and kickboxing. Outside of that can’t help ya lol
     

    birddog

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    nunya
    TJ, few people have the opportunity to train with SF operators so think about it for a sec with an open mind...

    If the instructor has the creds, the training would be good for folks that haven’t worn a uniform. Even a casual shooter/homeowner that’s interested in marksmenship would benefit from FOF drills as opposed to punching paper.

    Shooting isn’t easy under stress, and it sure as hell ain’t easy when being shot at. Acquiring useful skills in training scenarios instead of self taught bad habits would pay dividends for the uninitiated.
     
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