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  • breakingcontact

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    No right answer as unpredictable things will come up.

    But how long do you think we have until the economy collapses?

    How long until our government is unable to continue adding wildly to the national debt and massive austerity measures have to be enforced? If not overall budget cuts then radical tax increases on everyone except the socialist masses? Either of these could lead to societal unrest and collapse. I know most things in life happen gradually but eventually we will reach a tipping point. I dont want any of this to happen. I fear it will be horrible all around. I really hope we can restore the Constitution and fight this democratic tyranny that is taking over.

    So ill state again.

    How long until the economy collapses?

    Since our government is so big and has its hands in so much of the economy and society i didnt ask "when will the gov collapse", but it is related.

    My rough answer is 20-40 years. This is 1 to 2 generations of uncontrolled immigration, massive interference by gov in the economy, all branches of gov ignoring the Constitution, another 1-2 generations of generational welfare classes, same with corporatism where bailouts are just expected for bad business decisions oh and another 1-2 generations of public school and mass media conditioning that the Founding Fathers didnt know what they were doing, that the Constitution is meaningless and that democracy and bigger government are the answers.

    With our wildly shifting population demographics unless people change willingly or are forced to change, we will have a massive welfare state far beyond what we do now. The gov will demand more control over the economy and eventually cause it to collapse through attempting to control it and redistribute the wealth.

    What can we do about it? Congress has to defund the government and starve the beast.
    Venture Surplus ad
     

    breakingcontact

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    The democrats have never seen a poor person that didnt "deserve" "help". The GOP found a way to stuff the pockets of big business.

    They are both for big gov now. Just to benefit different groups.

    With the never ending debt monetization and increasing national debt we just never have to confront reality. Thats what has to stop.

    The USSR couldn't kill us but we are killing ourselves in the name of social justice, corporate subsidies and "the war on terror".
     

    Shooter McGavin

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    I don't have an answer for any of those questions, I do agree with your statements however. As far as societal unrest goes I think it will be just that, unrest. Though there are many that would stand up and say no more and actually follow through, I fear the many would be a minority.
     

    TexasR.N.

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    Read and understand Cloward -Piven:
    The Strategy was first elucidated in the May 2, 1966 issue of The Nation magazine by a pair of radical socialist Columbia University professors, Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. David Horowitz summarizes it as:
    The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.
    Articles: Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis


    United States Government Debt To GDP
    The United States recorded a Government Debt equivalent to 101.60 percent of the countrys Gross Domestic Product in 2012. Government Debt To GDP in the United States is reported by the U.S. Bureau of Public Debt. From 1940 until 2012, the United States Government Debt To GDP averaged 60.3 Percent reaching an all time high of 121.7 Percent in December of 1946 and a record low of 31.7 Percent in December of 1974. Generally, Government debt as a percent of GDP is used by investors to measure a country ability to make future payments on its debt, thus affecting the country borrowing costs and government bond yields. This page provides - United States Government Debt To GDP - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.2014-04-10
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp



    Fourth, since the yield on U.S. Treasury securities is currently considered a risk-free rate of return and as the yield on these securities increases, risky investments such as corporate debt and equity investments will lose appeal. This phenomenon is a direct result of the fact that it will be more difficult for corporations to generate enough pre-tax income to offer a high enough risk premium on their bonds and stock dividends to justify investing in their company. This dilemma is known as the crowding out effect, and tends to encourage the growth in the size of the government, and the simultaneous reduction in the size of the private sector.

    Fifth, and perhaps most importantly, as the risk of a country defaulting on its debt service obligation increases, the country loses its social, economic and political power. This in turn makes the national debt level a national security issue.

    The Bottom Line
    The national debt level is one of the most important public policy issues. When debt is used appropriately, it can be used to foster the long-term growth and prosperity of a country. However, the national debt must be evaluated in an appropriate manner, such as comparing the amount of interest expense paid to other governmental expenditures or by comparing debt levels on a per capita basis.
    What The National Debt Means To You

    While I am far from being an economic guru, I have been trying to learn as much as I can.
    How long do we have?
    3 yrs, maybe a few more depending how the shell game is played, and other economic events around the world.
     
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    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
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    Less than 10 years.
    Baby boomers are leaving the workforce at the same rate they entered.
    Taxpayers are already outnumbered by takers.
     

    breakingcontact

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    I do believe the collapse of the economy is intentional. What is very troubling to me is how the big corporations are going along with this managed decline so long as they can profit from it. Here's another thing that troubles me. In my adult life I've never had a job that wasnt with the government directly (teaching, Army) or indirectly (current job working for huge company on gov contracts as was my last job).
     

    kabob

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    The economy already collapsed in 2008 as bad as the market could bear before safe guards kicked in. Chicken Little scenarios aren't worth wasting the brain power. Bone up on macroeconomics if you don't believe me.
     

    breakingcontact

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    The economy already collapsed in 2008 as bad as the market could bear before safe guards kicked in. Chicken Little scenarios aren't worth wasting the brain power. Bone up on macroeconomics if you don't believe me.

    I understand a fair amount of economics. The Fed admits it is operating in uncharted waters and doesn't know what effects its actions will have.

    Chicken Little? Safe guards? Please.
     

    Byrd666

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    While I'm not certain of any kind of timeline. I'm almost 100.00% certain of (2) things. And I believe they are so tightly intertwined that neither can be ignored.

    There Will be a 100 percent economic collapse of either this country, or another, that will cause a global economic collapse.

    There will be a revolt against our government. As there have been in far more countries than our "free press" tell us of. Though it might not be a bloody revolt, there will be some sort of action by the citizens that will either be caused by, or cause, the economic collapse.

    Some people, from all walks of life, societies, cultures, and countries are finally starting to realize that government wants nothing more than to Control the population and Not lead and govern. And the people are finally getting tired of being treated like a mushroom, and having what freedoms, both civil and monetary, slowly stripped from their control. And while I don't look forward to the chaos and crisis either are going cause, I think it might be a good thing in the long run
     

    Dash Riprock

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    Good post. Hard to say how much time we have until a meltdown but at the current pace, I'd say more like 10-15 years, max, than 20-30.

    I think something will happen to change the direction before it gets to that point, though. At least I hope so.

    I also think the "GOP is feeding big business" sentiment is greatly exaggerated, and to whatever degree is true is far more easily corrected than stopping the Dem's entitlement train is going to be. Will try to expand more on this when I get home tonight.
     
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    jordanmills

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    I'm not sure that it will be a "collapse" that can be pointed to as a single event. More of a continuation and growth of failure and idiocy that gets a lot worse 10-20 years from now. If you're in the middle of it, it won't seem discontinuous, but an American from 20 years ago won't recognize the America 20 years from now.
     

    breakingcontact

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    Good post. Hard to say how much time we have until a meltdown but at the current pace, I'd say more like 10-15 years, max, than 20-30.

    I think something will happen to change the direction before it gets to that point, though. At least I hope so.

    I also think the "GOP is feeding big business" sentiment is greatly exaggerated, and to whatever degree is true is far more easily corrected than stopping the Dem's entitlement train is going to be. Will try to expand more on this when I get home tonight.

    My biggest examples are the defense industry, agricultural subsidies and the bank and Detroit bailouts. Look forward to what you have to say on this.
     

    breakingcontact

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    I'm not sure that it will be a "collapse" that can be pointed to as a single event. More of a continuation and growth of failure and idiocy that gets a lot worse 10-20 years from now. If you're in the middle of it, it won't seem discontinuous, but an American from 20 years ago won't recognize the America 20 years from now.

    Right. People are and will be increasingly conditioned. It certainly seems the Constitution is increasingly being ignored as is the rule of law, both being replaced with the will and rule of man. This thread 20 years from now may be purged from existence as "hate speech".
     

    Mike1234567

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    Less than 10 years.
    Baby boomers are leaving the workforce at the same rate they entered.
    Taxpayers are already outnumbered by takers.

    I was a giver since age 15. I suppose when you retire the youth of your time will be just as resentful as you are. Frankly, I don't give a rats behind what you think. I sent you and all your little friends to school. Mm-kay?
     

    Renegade

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    In 2025, all of the baby boomers will be at retirement age. Thus workforce particpation will be at an all-time low, and the number of folks getting a check from Uncle Sugar will be at an all-time high. This is when the system will be at most stress.

    When the economy will fail though, who knows. It will come fast though and without much warning, just like the banking crisis did in 2008. US currency is really nothing more than monopoly money, everybody knows it, but nobody wants to be the first to cash out for fear of starting the run. But that is what will happen.
     

    breakingcontact

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    In 2025, all of the baby boomers will be at retirement age. Thus workforce particpation will be at an all-time low, and the number of folks getting a check from Uncle Sugar will be at an all-time high. This is when the system will be at most stress.

    When the economy will fail though, who knows. It will come fast though and without much warning, just like the banking crisis did in 2008. US currency is really nothing more than monopoly money, everybody knows it, but nobody wants to be the first to cash out for fear of starting the run. But that is what will happen.

    OK. This is a good point. I suppose I've focused more on handouts and not benefits.

    Those who choose to work will be demanded to give more and more. Not sure when John Gault will take his ball and go home.

    This also reminds me (I need to look it up). What would the real tax rates be if not for the wild deficit spending? Yes I know we have always had deficits but when you look at our deficit to GDP it is troubling.
     
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