How often do you practice pistol shooting?

[retrieverman]

Before this current ammo shortage started, I literally shot every single day, but I’ve slowed down to only a few times a week with less ammo consumed per time. I’m far from being short on ammo, but I’ve realized my stash of factory loaded ammo and reloading components isn’t infinite.

 

[benenglish]

So overall, you had to show that you had familiarity with your weapon, enough so that you could do a reload on a locked back slide WHILE shooting, and continue shooting within the time limit.

I don't like this at all. The likelihood that any non-LEO in a self-defense situation will need to reload and continue the fight is so vanishingly small that requiring that skill be demonstrated to get a license canNOT be based on any logical argument.

Whoever put that into the law in Cali just wanted to make the process more difficult. The reasons for that can come from every side. Pro-gun elitists may want to belong to a more exclusive club. Anti-gun folks may simply want to throw up a roadblock because they don't like guns on general principles. But whoever is responsible for that part of the law is definitely no friend to gun owners.

 

[toddnjoyce]

… I think we as "gunners" should strive to be better…

at not thinking up idiotic fudd roadblocks to keep other people from exercising their 2A rights.

 

[benenglish]

Thinking back to my first Texas concealed carry class, mid 90’s, we had to shoot, load mags, reload, demonstrate weapons manipulation/ safety handling, etc
out to at 15 yards. I remember one qual where we shot to 25 yards.

Was this some sort of preparatory class or was it the class to actually get the license?

I got my first license at roughly that same time and I never ran into most of that. All of that is a good idea in a class teaching people to shoot. But almost none of it, AFAIK, has ever been a part of the basic class to get your paperwork for the state.

 

[RankAmateur]

If the government gets involved at all it needs to be for the least amount required. Striving to be better is a great thing it’s just why should our standards be everyone’s who’s mentally competent? I won’t stand in the way of some old guy who’s going to be slower.

My basic requirements would be good judgment and understanding what accuracy they are capable of. That’s it. I’m over nanny state crap.

My wife and I intentionally moved here to escape the elitist nanny state environment of the Northeast. Constitutional carry was not a small part of that attraction. I was, and remain somewhat confused and uncomfortable with the continued existence of an LTC in a state that recognizes that 2A doesn't give anyone a right. Rather it is supposed to prevent the government from restricting that right.

Even if only marginally, licensing creates two classes of owners, with the government restricting the scope of the god-given right in the group of citizens for those who don't meet some cluster of "additional qualifications". The LTC itself is anti-2A.

I would certainly favor classification of shooters/owners based on skills, judgement, understanding, capabilities, etc., but only if those criteria were created/adjudicated by groups of independent citizens choosing to associate for such a purpose. We do that for demonstrated skills classifications in organizations such as IDPA, USPSA, National Benchrest, etc. With the possible exception of classifications administered by the military for members of the armed forces (given the essential nature of the military), I don't think ANY other "classification" by government of a citizen's ability to exercise their rights is a "good".

Just one man's opinion, and from someone grateful to be here.

 

[CaliGunner]

I don't like this at all. The likelihood that any non-LEO in a self-defense situation will need to reload and continue the fight is so vanishingly small that requiring that skill be demonstrated to get a license canNOT be based on any logical argument.

Whoever put that into the law in Cali just wanted to make the process more difficult. The reasons for that can come from every side. Pro-gun elitists may want to belong to a more exclusive club. Anti-gun folks may simply want to throw up a roadblock because they don't like guns on general principles. But whoever is responsible for that part of the law is definitely no friend to gun owners.

I agree with not making "reloading" a requirement on the state level for a license but I seriously disagree with "vanishingly small" that you will never have to reload. That type of thought is what leads people to not practice reloading and makes them worse off as shooters.

I have the same disagreement with guys who carry without a spare mag (met these types in California and Texas).

We have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[CaliGunner]

at not thinking up idiotic fudd roadblocks to keep other people from exercising their 2A rights.

No one is suggesting road blocks to 2A rights in serious way (thought that was clear with the Dicken's Drill comment), but if you can't reload your gun in a proficient manner during a shooting drill, you're simply putting yourself at a big disadvantage as a shooter in any encounter. Plain and simple. Call me "elitist" all you want.

 

[benenglish]

I don't think ANY other "classification" by government of a citizen's ability to exercise their rights is a "good".

In principle, I agree. In practice, I'll hang on to my LTC because it's useful for much more than just carrying a handgun.

 

[toddnjoyce]

You made some good valid points.
But I do have to agree somewhat with what Caligunner said about as gun owners we should take it amongst ourselves to strive to be better. I am glad Texas has CC. But Texas still has a long way to go to make it better.
FJB.


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Yup. The state prohibited places list needs to be significantly scaled back, 30.05/.06/.07 needs to be repealed, protections extended to permitless carry that currently exist for LTC. We need to look at LTC being the only requirement for anybody to carry in a school.

 

[toddnjoyce]

No one is suggesting road blocks to 2A rights in serious way (thought that was clear with the Dicken's Drill comment), but if you can't reload your gun in a proficient manner during a shooting drill, you're simply putting yourself at a big disadvantage as a shooter in any encounter. Plain and simple. Call me "elitist" all you want.

Nope. You are advocating the government create an arbitrary standard of your liking before the state allows that person to be issued a license to carry a firearm.

As ben mentioned, what the LTC provides is benefits that have zero to do with marksmanship and nearly everything to do with providing access with a firearm to places unlicensed people do not have or defenses to prosecution for idiotic signs.

Providing training scenarios as part of the course is nothing like establishing a proficiency pass/fail standard to get that license.

Might as well make participation in IDPA or USPSA competitions a requirement to obtain or renew an LTC.

 

[paknheat]

Was this some sort of preparatory class or was it the class to actually get the license?

I got my first license at roughly that same time and I never ran into most of that. All of that is a good idea in a class teaching people to shoot. But almost none of it, AFAIK, has ever been a part of the basic class to get your paperwork for the state.

It was very similar to the qualification ran by the state for TDC personal. I’m thinking that’s where it came from.


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[Axxe55]

I agree with not making "reloading" a requirement on the state level for a license but I seriously disagree with "vanishingly small" that you will never have to reload. That type of thought is what leads people to not practice reloading and makes them worse off as shooters.

I have the same disagreement with guys who carry without a spare mag (met these types in California and Texas).

We have to agree to disagree on that.

If the generally accepted rounds expended for most self-defense shooting is 3 to 5 rounds, please then explain where a reload, or carrying a spare mag would be necessary?

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/the-statistically-perfect-gunfight/

How Much Ammo Capacity Is Enough? - Lucky Gunner Lounge

How much ammo to carry is a controversial issue. In this post, we take a look at something you might consider when weighing the issue.

www.luckygunner.com

 

[benenglish]

We have to agree to disagree on that

I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you on this one. I recognize that learning more skills is always better. You're absolutely right about that.

As always, reasonable people may disagree, as in here:

Many permit holders and armed citizens don’t carry a spare magazine, and both John Correia’s and Tom Givens’ data set indicate that the need to reload an empty gun during defensive incidents is extremely rare (odds of less than 0.1%).

Full blog entry here: https://blog.krtraining.com/texas-handgun-association-2022-conference/

 

[Axxe55]

You made some good valid points.
But I do have to agree somewhat with what Caligunner said about as gun owners we should take it amongst ourselves to strive to be better. I am glad Texas has CC. But Texas still has a long way to go to make it better.
FJB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Becoming more proficient with our firearms should be the goal of every gun owner, without a doubt. But Caligunner seems hell bent that ther should be standards imposed to have those who wish to carry will have to comply with before they can carry. His argument lacks any merit or evidence that supports his assertion.

 

[Tnhawk]

I agree with not making "reloading" a requirement on the state level for a license but I seriously disagree with "vanishingly small" that you will never have to reload. That type of thought is what leads people to not practice reloading and makes them worse off as shooters.

I have the same disagreement with guys who carry without a spare mag (met these types in California and Texas).

We have to agree to disagree on that.

Average shooting takes place in 3 seconds, 3 rounds at 3 feet.
With a 1911, I carry a spare mag, with my other guns holding 13-17 rounds I am unlikely to need to reload.

 

[toddnjoyce]

To clear the air, the tactical use of a spare magazine isn’t for round count; it’s in case of malfunction.

 

[SURVIVOR619]

How often you ask @CaliGunner? As often as I can, which is at best once a month.
Add to the expense - unless you’re shooting on your own land or a buddy’s ranch (which is not often for me), add the cost of range fees and drive time. You’ll appreciate the vast amount of BLM land available to shoot for no fee back in Kamalafornia. Notwithstanding, I’d gladly pay double what I pay now to play instead of being back in the turdhole!

 

[CaliGunner]

Might as well make participation in IDPA or USPSA competitions a requirement to obtain or renew an LTC.

No one is saying you have to be an IDPA/USPSA champion to get a license. But there is a middle ground between someone who is shooting rounds into the ceiling, and a guy who is able to double tap a 3" inch target at 50 yards with a sub-compact.

That's the problem with these discussions sometimes, people aren't mature enough to discuss nuance, always going towards the "extremes" to make their point. We can be more mature than this.

 

[CaliGunner]

How often you ask @CaliGunner? As often as I can, which is at best once a month.
Add to the expense - unless you’re shooting on your own land or a buddy’s ranch (which is not often for me), add the cost of range fees and drive time. You’ll appreciate the vast amount of BLM land available to shoot for no fee back in Kamalafornia. Notwithstanding, I’d gladly pay double what I pay now to play instead of being back in the turdhole!

I used to be a Hodge Road regular, so I definitely appreciated BLM land back when I was in Cali (still would never go back for even double the salary).

 

[SURVIVOR619]

I used to be a Hodge Road regular, so I definitely appreciated BLM land back when I was in Cali (still would never go back for even double the salary).

Likely crossed paths at some point or another out at Hodge.

My primary spot was BLM but hard to access b/c it was gated by the Border Patrol down in the Otay Mountains in south San Diego. A good friend of mine, retired S.D. County Sheriff had a master gate key to any of those BP entrances. We could drive in, shoot and BBQ, chat it up with the BP whenever they passed through.

Good times indeed but for sure you got it right - I also would not go back for double my salary. In fact, even if I were the recent powerball $400+ million take home winner I would not go back there!