Hunter Mistakes Woman For Deer - KIA

[Double Naught Spy]

Failure to understand pistols and ballistics will no doubt lead to a failure to understand the situation. One of the articles said he had a single shot pistol. One of the popular hunting single shot pistols is the Contender. The Contender can come chambered in a variety of calibers including rifle calibers and with a variety of barrel lengths. You can get 14" Contender pistol barrels in 30-30, .45-70, 6.8, .223, etc. You can buy the "Pro Hunter" version and get something like a .308 15" barrel. These are barrels longer than many folks' SBRs that they are using to hunt beyond 200 yards. There is no need to aim at the sky to hit a target at 200 yards if you have the right gear.

 

[robertc1024]

I was with a group on here trying to shoot normal handguns at a steel plate at 200 yards. It was far from impossible. Yes, you had to aim a few feet high, but quite doable. I know we hit it with .22's, 9mm, .45 ACP, and .357 mag. We might have just scared it with a .44 mag - can't remember for sure.

 

[popper]

200 yds with long barrel scoped pistol is doable but identifying target is imperative. Going into the woods during hunting season without blaze is near stupid - even for non-hunters. Typically, minimum of manslaughter charge. Not an acident, failure to identify the target - period.

 

[NavyVet1959]

According to Texas, if you are on land that they have listed as "public hunting lands", you must wear blaze orange during hunting season, even if you are not hunting.

If this guy was trespassing when he mistakenly shot the woman, doesn't that mean that she was also probably trespassing?

Depending upon the tree cover, I can see how a person might be in error about whether sunset had occurred yet.

On a side note, it seems that NY recognizes that wild hogs (Eurasian Boars) are a problem, but they do not allow the hunting of them.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/70843.html

 

[Younggun]

Waiting for BenEnglish to chime in on the range of a pistol.

 

[TheDan]

You can't even prove the article. No names, no jail entry. You can't call the hospital. They won't say anything. Can't call the sheriff's department.....because it's another stupid liberal mind game. Known as an open investigation excuse.

The website listed will never give an update. If by chance they choose to push the propaganda further and list something. It'll be the same hot horse$hit the first article was.

GSG is an expert on bullshit stories... I'd listen to him.

 

[Younggun]

GSG is an expert on bullshit stories... I'd listen to him.

Lol

 

[Dawico]

Yap, shooter was lying through his teeth. Even with a 454 Casull, he would have to point his pistol to the sky to hit that woman at 200 yds.

Ever tried it?

You might be suprised how little holdover you need for most common handgun rounds.

 

[Vaquero]

Ever tried it?

You might be suprised how little holdover you need for most common handgun rounds.

Yep
It was a real eye opener for me.
Modern handguns don't "lob one in" like I used to think.

 

[NavyVet1959]

Ever tried it?

You might be suprised how little holdover you need for most common handgun rounds.

http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator

.45 Auto (.45 ACP), American Eagle (Federal) Full Metal Jacket, 230gr

Range(yds) / Drop(in) / Velocity(fps) / Energy(ft-lbs) / Wind drift(in) / Time(ms)
0 0.0001 890 404 0.0000 1
50 -5.6475 853 372 0.0000 173
100 -23.2345 820 343 0.0000 353
150 -53.7427 790 319 0.0000 539
200 -98.1849 761 296 0.0000 733
250 -157.6139 735 276 0.0000 933
300 -233.1309 709 257 0.0000 1141
350 -326.2321 685 240 0.0000 1357
400 -437.5200 662 224 0.0000 1580
450 -569.0315 640 209 0.0000 1811
500 -721.7964 618 195 0.0000 2050

So, for 200 yds on .45ACP, about 98" of bullet drop according to this calculator.

 

[Vaquero]

http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator

.45 Auto (.45 ACP), American Eagle (Federal) Full Metal Jacket, 230gr

Range Drop(in) / Velocity(fps) / Energy(ft-lbs) / Wind drift(in) / Time(ms)
0 0.0001 890 404 0.0000 1
50 -5.6475 853 372 0.0000 173
100 -23.2345 820 343 0.0000 353
150 -53.7427 790 319 0.0000 539
200 -98.1849 761 296 0.0000 733
250 -157.6139 735 276 0.0000 933
300 -233.1309 709 257 0.0000 1141
350 -326.2321 685 240 0.0000 1357
400 -437.5200 662 224 0.0000 1580
450 -569.0315 640 209 0.0000 1811
500 -721.7964 618 195 0.0000 2050

So, for 200 yds on .45ACP, about 98" of bullet drop according to this calculator.

Not exactly "aiming at the sky". Huh?

 

[NavyVet1959]

Not exactly "aiming at the sky". Huh?

Long range shooting with .45-70... Artillery trajectory?

.45-70 Government, Remington Soft Point, 405gr

Range(yds) / Drop(in) / Velocity(fps) / Energy(ft-lbs) / Wind drift(in) / Time(ms)
0 0.0000 1330 1590 0.0000 1
100 -10.7801 1168 1227 0.0000 242
200 -47.0499 1054 999 0.0000 513
300 -114.5320 976 856 0.0000 810
400 -218.4415 917 756 0.0000 1127
500 -363.9252 868 677 0.0000 1464
600 -555.2704 825 612 0.0000 1819
700 -798.3850 787 557 0.0000 2192
800 -1,097.6841 752 508 0.0000 2584
900 -1,458.9697 720 466 0.0000 2993
1000 -1,887.9461 690 428 0.0000 3422
1100 -2,391.4891 662 394 0.0000 3870
1200 -2,976.2675 635 363 0.0000 4339
1300 -3,650.4375 610 335 0.0000 4830
1400 -4,420.3897 587 310 0.0000 5342
1500 -5,298.1191 564 286 0.0000 5879
1600 -6,291.1261 543 265 0.0000 6441
1700 -7,413.8335 524 247 0.0000 7031
1800 -8,676.7802 505 229 0.0000 7649
1900 -10,092.5759 488 214 0.0000 8298
2000 -11,681.7477 473 201 0.0000 8980
2100 -13,462.1051 459 189 0.0000 9699
2200 -15,449.1191 447 180 0.0000 10455
2300 -17,670.5659 436 171 0.0000 11254
2400 -20,153.3765 427 164 0.0000 12098
2500 -22,929.3406 420 159 0.0000 12993
2600 -26,031.5773 414 154 0.0000 13943
2700 -29,506.5211 410 151 0.0000 14956
2800 -33,407.4943 407 149 0.0000 16040
2900 -37,794.5697 406 148 0.0000 17204
3000 -42,744.1053 406 148 0.0000 18460

3562 ft drop at 3000 yds... Well, with that one at least, you would definitely be "shooting at the sky" a bit more...

 

[Vaquero]

Goalpost moved.

 

[Dawico]

http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator

.45 Auto (.45 ACP), American Eagle (Federal) Full Metal Jacket, 230gr

Range(yds) / Drop(in) / Velocity(fps) / Energy(ft-lbs) / Wind drift(in) / Time(ms)
0 0.0001 890 404 0.0000 1
50 -5.6475 853 372 0.0000 173
100 -23.2345 820 343 0.0000 353
150 -53.7427 790 319 0.0000 539
200 -98.1849 761 296 0.0000 733
250 -157.6139 735 276 0.0000 933
300 -233.1309 709 257 0.0000 1141
350 -326.2321 685 240 0.0000 1357
400 -437.5200 662 224 0.0000 1580
450 -569.0315 640 209 0.0000 1811
500 -721.7964 618 195 0.0000 2050

So, for 200 yds on .45ACP, about 98" of bullet drop according to this calculator.

That is about the worst case scenario for handgun rounds too.

 

[NavyVet1959]

Goalpost moved.

The 1879 Sandy Hook .45-70 long range tests...

http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html

The Springfield needed slightly more than 17 degrees for the angle of rifle elevation at the maximum test range, but look at the angle of descent -- 68-75 degrees. Big difference than the ideal parabolic path that you would get firing a projectile in a vacuum like we probably all had to calculate back in Physics classes in high school or college.

 

[Swarf]

Ever tried it?

You might be suprised how little holdover you need for most common handgun rounds.

No, sir, I have not tried hunting with a pistol-caliber short-barrel handgun out to 200yrds. Some things in life do not require experience to know it's a bad idea. I do own - and enjoy shooting - several carbines in pistol calibers. I sight them in 1" high at 50yd and they do quite well out to 100yd. Beyond that, ballistics drop like a rock.

I will concede, however, since the make and model of firearm was not specified in the news articles, it is entirely possible that said "pistol" could have been a T/C Contender or an AR barreled in rifle caliber, in which case 200yd is easily within range.

 

[Texas42]

Google tells me a 44 mag has 20” drop and over a 1000ft-lbs of energy.

That will hunt. Takes more skill than the overage handgun shooter.....but that’s not saying much. I could hit a deer sized sillouette off have at 90 yards pretty consistently with a 9mm 1911 when I was in practice.

Give me a rest and a scope, I’d like to practice st it, but sounds like fun hunting to me.

 

[NavyVet1959]

No, sir, I have not tried hunting with a pistol-caliber short-barrel handgun out to 200yrds. Some things in life do not require experience to know it's a bad idea. I do own - and enjoy shooting - several carbines in pistol calibers. I sight them in 1" high at 50yd and they do quite well out to 100yd. Beyond that, ballistics drop like a rock.

I will concede, however, since the make and model of firearm was not specified in the news articles, it is entirely possible that said "pistol" could have been a T/C Contender or an AR barreled in rifle caliber, in which case 200yd is easily within range.

I wouldn't hunt with a M1911 at 200 yds, but if I was at a range that had a steel target at 200 yds and I happened to have a M1911 with me at the time, I would probably take a few shots to see if I could hit it. Actually, I've come close to that distance when I was shooting over at the Koko Head range in Hawaii.

In one of the new articles, they stated that he was hunting with a single shot handgun in a rifle caliber. It is probably a safe bet that it was a Thompson Contender or Encore since they are pretty popular with the handgun hunting crowd. The articles say that he shot her in the hip and that would be about the right height above ground for a shot through the lungs or heart of a deer -- well, at least the deer around here.

 

[popper]

Navy vet - I was in Ar with the G. kids a few years back during hunting season. Property owner said we could walk in the woods but recommended wearing blaze. Sound of first shot and we left the woods. The area of the shooting is some sort of WMA (?). Few years back I shot a pig @ ~25 yds, wanted to try a second shot @~50, so hold over (40SW lite load). Darned if it didn't go OVER that pig. I do feel for that muzzle loader guy (Pa ?) that had an A.D. when pointed in the air and killed a gal driving a buggy a long way off. HE went to the LE and told them he might be the cause. Takes some big balls to do that.

 

[Swarf]

Google tells me a 44 mag has 20” drop and over a 1000ft-lbs of energy.

That will hunt. Takes more skill than the overage handgun shooter.....but that’s not saying much. I could hit a deer sized sillouette off have at 90 yards pretty consistently with a 9mm 1911 when I was in practice.

Give me a rest and a scope, I’d like to practice st it, but sounds like fun hunting to me.

Actually, Hornady Ballsitics Calc says their 200gr XTP 44mag drops 35" @ 200yd with 436 ft-lbs left. That's less than some 40S&W at muzzle. Plinking at that distance would be fun to try for sure, and a well placed shot will kill a medium size game yes, but I personally lack the skill, confidence - and eyesight - to hunt with one at that distance.