I'd like your opinion on this.

[Charlie]

I think I'll just sit here and eat some popcorn whilst' ya'll figure it all out. Even though I don't have any interactions on the street with law enforcement or thugs, I'm gonna' have to admit that I'd go with law enforcement if I had to vote.

 

[TxBigfoot]

Shooting at a moving vehicle is deadly force. Was that justified, is the question for the officer who fired.

I don't think the officers up to that point used enough force.

Damn!!! I actually agree with you. I think the cop should have used force to control the situation. I have zero leo experience, but I'm pretty sure shooting at a minivan full of children is f-ing stupid.

 

[Brains]

It's always easy to make judgements from our chairs watching video footage. We have the luxury of time on our side, and we can ponder the situation without having to manage the situation. That said, the officer likely was doing his best to be as polite, cordial, and disarming as he could be. Where I personally feel he erred, is when the 14 year old got out and bucked up. At that point, his focus should have changed from the mother to the child, and he should have detained the boy in the back seat of his cruiser. Without her child, the mother is very likely not going to run. If she then escalates, he may have to also detain her until backup arrived, which it appears they were pretty close and got on scene pretty quickly.

The guy shooting into the van was taking his time and was probably shooting at the tires. Not the best idea, I don't feel it was the correct decision to fire on the vehicle, but nevertheless it appears like he chose to use a potentially lethal weapon in a non-lethal manner.

What should happen to him? I don't know, I'm an IT director, not a judge

 

[breakingcontact]

Funny how some think you have to be in LEO to have an opinion on this...expand that logic.

 

[Bvhawk]

Since the officer that opened fire was responding to an officer needing assistance, he pobably was reacting before he knew all the information that was available. I cannot believe he would have opened fire if he had known that the vehicle was full of children.

unlike on tv, vehicle skins don't stop bullets unless it hits a frame or something like that. Now after saying that, IF he was aware of the kids, he should be charged with 5 counts of endangering a child with aggravated circumstances which would be a very serious felony.

Most high speed chases end up hurting the innocent more often than not and if a child would have been hit by a bullet and seriously injured or killed it would have negatively hurt EVERYONE involved. I'm glad it ended up the way it did, at this point everyone will go on with their lives as normal after about a year of regret from the mom.

 

[Younggun]

When your first post in a thread is something like this:

Checking in to watch the cop worship.

your stance becomes obvious.



If the cops had arrested the kid and the mother freaked they would be blamed for putting a kid on the car. If the car fled and hit a family...cops fault. Rains on Saturday.....yup, another dirty cop.

 

[HillRider]

Looks like the cops need more training. Those D.C. cops, they know how to kill a mom real good.
I think they should have just blown up the van with drone personally.

 

[UncleSamsMisguidedChild]

YG I almost just spit out my cereal when I saw your title.

 

[deemus]

Well, I think the question here is.....

Was she hot?

 

[breakingcontact]

Watching the video...when the punk 14 year old was attacking the cop...i was in my head "taze him! Shoot him!" but the cops lame attempt at a trip showed he didnt know what he was doing.

Cops dont get to retaliate in the street once they cant control a situation and (try to) execute people. If the car was speeding at an officer and the officer had to shoot to save his life or someone elses and even if an innocent kid got hit id understand. I would then even agree this poor excuse for a mother and her dirt bag son put the kids lives at risk by attempting vehicular homicide. If the cop pulled his gun and shot the kid fighting with him id blame the young man who attacked the cop. Thats not what happened here.

My comment about the cop worshippers shows my bias? No, it was in proper anticipation of how these threads always go.

Option A: Cops good. Disobey cops, get shot. Option B: Question cops. Hate cops.

I appreciate those of you who can see the nuances of a situation like this and not just choose Option A or B.

 

[gcmj45acp]

In a FB argument over this incident in Taos NM. Good cops? Bad cops? Justified?

Thanks,
State cop shoots at minivan full of kids

Funny you asked...I'm working on a blog post about it. Short version is this. I think there are buckets of stupid on both sides but, this started as a lawful arrest and the cop trying to affect that arrest was doing the best he knew how from what I can see. Mom started the snowball rolling when she left that initial traffic stop so I do find her partially culpable and I think the cop was being too nice by not tazering her son when the son tried to stop the officer from arresting mom.

Now, this all goes to shit when back up arrives. I can't see enough to question the use of the baton but, if you're trying to effect an arrest against someone who just attacked you, I don't really have a problem with it. I have a problem with Mom driving off a second time but, that's where this really goes to shit as I cannot see any articulable threat to the officer who fired at the vehicle and I cannot see an articulable threat from which he might be protecting fellow officers.

I get the feeling they ALL wish they could make this whole incident go away because I'm sure the agency doesn't want this played in court. But, this isn't something that can just go away. Actions on both sides were so egregious that it has to be dealt with but, public opinion will probably lean heavily toward the mom because of the emotional damage done by a police officer basically shooting blind, into a vehicle full of kids. It's not like the DC shooting where the woman was clearly trying to run you or another officer over and the only way to deal with it was shooting her.

So my view is the officer who shot into the car is and probably should be done being a cop. I somehow doubt he'll face jail time but, I could certainly see some prosecutors asking for it. Mom needs to be charged with reckless endangerment as well but, I cannot see jail time being a benefit to the state or to her children. Her son however, might need to spend a little time being taught that defending mom is fine unless mom has just done something for which she should be arrested which is what happened here. The cop with the baton, might end up getting some time off and some training but, I honestly don't see enough in this video to fault him for anything other than letting things get out of hand by not being aggressive enough, early enough. That said, his restraint was probably just a manifestation of adhering to agency policy.

Jason, our LE contributor, has made the same observations and other officers in his agency said they can see the cop who shot at the van getting fired while the other guys might get suspended for a while. Mom however, may benefit from public sympathy. A prosecutor will be hard pressed to get a conviction against a woman trying to get her kids away from a "crazy" cop who is shooting at them while another one bashes in the window with a baton. As I've heard a thousand times, it's not just the facts. It's how they write the report. And in court, it's how well they sell the story to the jury.

 

[Heinz Bar]

Thanks, Gary. I tend to think the shooting was justified in an attempt to disable the vehicle to avoid a dangerous chase through populated area, but I'm not a cop. Here is further info on the incident from Taos News.

It seems the politicians are trending toward throw the cop under the bus because of the bad press. Thanks for your and Jason's opinion on this. That's why I posted it in this forum.

 

[breakingcontact]

Thanks, Gary. I tend to think the shooting was justified in an attempt to disable the vehicle to avoid a dangerous chase through populated area, but I'm not a cop. Here is further info on the incident from Taos News.

It seems the politicians are trending toward throw the cop under the bus because of the bad press. Thanks for your and Jason's opinion on this. That's why I posted it in this forum.

What about her actions could lead an officer to believe she was going to "lead them" on a "high speed pursuit"? Im asking for real. What kind of burden of proof does an officer have to meet to justify deadly force due to what a person "might" do?

 

[Heinz Bar]

She has already fled once. The back up cops are coming to the aid on another officer who has been attacked. Not saying he's right, just goes to state of mind. And a high speed chase did ensue.

 

[breakingcontact]

The point when the officer was in the most danger he didnt use his baton/taser or gun but when the threat is leaving the scene, THEN deadly force is used? What is the threashold for justifying use of deadly force when the "public" is in harms way? Because when shots were fired no officers were in danger.

 

[Southpaw]

It's ridiculous that anybody that would flee to begin with should be given any sympathy or benefit of doubt. This is not a defense of any of the officers involved, they cases are separate and will be dealt with that way. This is rather a comment on how screwed up things have gotten in how some people are treated by juries and by public opinion, i.e. her being a mother.

Perhaps I am too black & white, but none of this would have happened had she just shut the F up and took the ticket and for that initial escalation of events she should allowed no leeway in prosecution or sentencing.

 

[breakingcontact]

It's ridiculous that anybody that would flee to begin with should be given any sympathy or benefit of doubt. This is not a defense of any of the officers involved, they cases are separate and will be dealt with that way. This is rather a comment on how screwed up things have gotten in how some people are treated by juries and by public opinion, i.e. her being a mother.

Perhaps I am too black & white, but none of this would have happened had she just shut the F up and took the ticket and for that initial escalation of events she should allowed no leeway in prosecution or sentencing.

I think most reasonable people agree how people should interact with police officers and many of us are disgusted at a lot of the societal decay we see.

However, this whole "none of it would have happened if not for her behavior" attitude is putting all of the blame on her and none on the officers. Criminals dont have to act with restraint, police do. Id argue the initial cop acted with TOO MUCH restraint and the cop who shot up the car acted with too little.

Im not encouraging anarchy but the knee jerk reaction that cops are the good guys who make good decisions and must be defended against the public is encouraging a totalitarian them vs us dystopia where any infraction can be met with deadly force due to some public employee's (police officer) discretion and excessive authority and use of deadly force.

Ill catch you all in the next police excessive use of force thread. Ive said my piece and illustrated my point several ways and so far its remained mostly civil. Adios!

 

[Southpaw]

I think most reasonable people agree how people should interact with police officers and many of us are disgusted at a lot of the societal decay we see.

This whole "none of it would have happened if not for her behavior" attitude is putting all of the blame on her and none on the officers. Criminals dont have act with restraint, polic

I see everyone involved individually, and if the any one officer is deemed to have acted outside of the law, then so be it. They should be punished accordingly, just as the driver should without regards to any sympathy for being a parent that juries are sometimes known to do.

 

[Renegade]

So much fail on both parts.

1st cop lost control of stop when he could not cuff her and she ran away.

Son is lucky cop had taser and did not shoot him with real gun.

Women is nuts fleeing from cops.

HeavySix sending rounds down range is full retard.

Backup officer should have blocked in car, rather then park in roadway.

Police Explorers could have handled this better, but other then HeavySix I see nothing to warrant suspension.

Driver needs some jail time

 

[Heinz Bar]

Breakingcontact, I agree with you whole heartedly in a general sense. Juxtapose this incident with another NM incident recently where the cops in a search for contraband completely violated a citizen. Those guys were totally in the wrong and should be fired at least and the department sued for an unfathomable amount of money. But those guys had oodles of time to come to their (bad) decision and continued well pas the point of idiocy. This cop had to make a split second decision on fragments of information. Tough to second guess him. I for one would like to know the effectiveness of his fire. Did he strike the tires and did they deflate? it obviously did not disable the vehicle.