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  • Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Is it cheating if the rules have been changed? Serious question.

    Honestly, I don't know. It might depend on what rules were changed and what they encompass.

    But if the rules have changed, then playing by those rules, technically would be cheating.

    But, on side note, ethics and morality still have to account for something IMO. A person needs to look into their heart, and do the right thing.
    DK Firearms
     

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
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    Honestly, I don't know. It might depend on what rules were changed and what they encompass.

    But if the rules have changed, then playing by those rules, technically would be cheating.

    But, on side note, ethics and morality still have to account for something IMO. A person needs to look into their heart, and do the right thing.
    The “right” thing is clearly stated in the first principle of KYFHO;

    Never initiate force against another. That should be the underlying principle of your life. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.
     

    Dougw1515

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    The “right” thing is clearly stated in the first principle of KYFHO;

    Never initiate force against another. That should be the underlying principle of your life. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.
    Correct! When life as you know it is on the line - there are no rules. With the very exitance of your country at stake and you have the opportunity to end the conflict in your favor, and that of your country and you mutter "It wouldn't be fair." You would go down in history as the biggest fucking idiot in the annals of history.
     

    gll

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    Is it cheating if the rules have been changed? Serious question.
    It's cheating if you change the rules to your advantage and against the original intent for the game. It's never cheating to play by the rules imposed upon you.

    The best most of us can do is to play by the rules to our best advantage, or, failing that, to ignore those rules changed to our disadvantage, regardless of repercussions.

    In the gun world, I see such things as bump stocks, bump fire, binary triggers, birds head grip smooth bore firearms, and pistol braces not as cheats, but as attempts to frustrate the cheaters.

    Ron Paul, while in Congress, was called "Dr. No", because he would never vote to increase spending, but he always did his best to get his constituents their share of the largesse. For that, they called him a hypocrite...

    You don't have to like the rules to play the game.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Jan 9, 2021
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    So, no SSN? How do they pay taxes, go to a doctor or a jillion other things requiring a SSN? The card says, not to be used for identification, but it has been for ages.
    They get a taxpayer ID number and non-SSN associated state ID. I know a guy that did that. It's perfectly legal and doable but the feds do get pretty vindictive about it. I knew this man by way of INGO and at the time lived near him. We even had a member join from NY who had from the story he told a pretty bogus felony conviction (attacked by a drunken lout at the bar, beats lout in self defense, cops are cuffing lout when lout produces a badge, tables are turned and the rest is history). He was a likeable guy and enough of us had had bad experiences with LEO to accept this easily enough. Anyway, he came to indiana allegedly to look at investment properties, met up with several of us along the way, even turned down my offer for a range trip on the sly by virtue of being a felon, but tried really hard to get Allen to sell him a gun. Amazingly enough, we never heard from him again after this trip to indiana. It leads me to the conclusion that whichever of several possibilities is true leading up to his arrival in Indiana he was delegated the task of compromising Allen otherwise he would have had a similarly casual attitude regarding the law with the test of us.
     

    Younggun

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    Correct! When life as you know it is on the line - there are no rules. With the very exitance of your country at stake and you have the opportunity to end the conflict in your favor, and that of your country and you mutter "It wouldn't be fair." You would go down in history as the biggest fucking idiot in the annals of history.

    There are always rules.

    Every tyrant that ever cane yo power did so by convincing people that the rules were just holding everyone back. What’s the point of putting on all the work to become the same thing you were supposed to be stopping?

    It’s like winning a shit sandwich instead of getting one for being the loser.


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    Dougw1515

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    There are always rules.

    Every tyrant that ever cane yo power did so by convincing people that the rules were just holding everyone back. What’s the point of putting on all the work to become the same thing you were supposed to be stopping?

    It’s like winning a shit sandwich instead of getting one for being the loser.


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    I suppose you're right in the strictest sense of the word. But when the "RULES" are in a state of flux, blatantly steering the results to a preordained destination, kinna hard to call'em rules. But in the strictest sense....

    Just to be clear - I'm using the word "rule" as interchangeable with the word "law".

    Example:

    Constitution states that during the trial portion of an impeachment of the "President" of the United States - The Chief Justice "SHALL" preside over the hearing. All of us LTC'ers and 2nd Amend'ers have a clue as to what the definition of "Shall", in this context, is. The Chief Justice WILL preside over the trial. But that's not happening or not going to happen. I suppose we could start splitting fine hairs and say this involves interpretation of and not changing of - the Rules. Free speech is another area we could have a discussion on the rules being changed or interpretation of existing rules. The list is rather lengthy, but I reckon my point is clear, or more so, now.

    Shall not be infringed...
     

    Younggun

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    You’ve given examples of not following rules. No examples of how cheating and breaking them will lead to anything other than more of the same.


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    Dougw1515

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    You’ve given examples of not following rules. No examples of how cheating and breaking them will lead to anything other than more of the same.


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    Hummm... [scratchin' my head]... Your point is well made. I am no longer able to defend the position I have taken. Game/Set/Match you win. I'll git yur ass next time! :flag:
     

    gll

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    There are always rules.

    Every tyrant that ever cane yo power did so by convincing people that the rules were just holding everyone back. What’s the point of putting on all the work to become the same thing you were supposed to be stopping?

    It’s like winning a shit sandwich instead of getting one for being the loser.


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    The point is that the advantage is gained by the tyrant, who can then favor, or disfavor, by passing out nothing but the same shit sandwich to everyone, while taking all the best that remains for himself.

    It's not a very farsighted plan, but works OK, for the tyrant, while there are still lots of resources for the taking and for as long as he can maintain dominance (his lifetime, preferably).

    The advantage of cheating is to the cheaters, for as long as they can get away with it...

    You may not be able to cheat the system, but the system can certainly cheat you.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    They see 7 1/2% of their income they can invest more effectively than the .gov and they can be pretty sure will actually be therein the end.

    SSN? Most places won't even hire you without a SSN. The places that will because they do lots of under the table business, like paying their employees cash, instead of a payroll check, don't for the most part pay really good wages anyways, or are running some sort of illegal enterprise, or business practices.

    And a state issued ID doesn't take the place of a SSN for employment purposes. It does take the place of a state issued DL as a form of recognized and valid ID though.
     

    Younggun

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    The point is that the advantage is gained by the tyrant, who can then favor, or disfavor, by passing out nothing but the same shit sandwich to everyone, while taking all the best that remains for himself.

    It's not a very farsighted plan, but works OK, for the tyrant, while there are still lots of resources for the taking and for as long as he can maintain dominance (his lifetime, preferably).

    The advantage of cheating is to the cheaters, for as long as they can get away with it...

    You may not be able to cheat the system, but the system can certainly cheat you.


    The issue here is that the tyrant is the only winner. And once you decide that it's ok for a tyrant to be tyrannical when it benefits you all hope is lost from freedom in the future. and eventually you'll find yourself under the tyrants boot. Solzhenitsyn questioned whether it was his own choices that put him in a gulag. He had acted with good intention. He had only supported the tyrant when the tyrant was doing things that really needed to be done. He came to the conclusion that he had brought forth the world he lived in. He'd ignored evils or chosen to pretend they were justified. The same dangers still exist, regardless of how noble we think the cause is. And everyone has a monster within.

    I think we all hold the same real principles and values here, for the most part. We disagree on details and sometimes which path to take. We all see how dangerous the path ahead is right now. And knowing that can make the idea of "win at all costs" very tempting. But I can't help but think that there are certain sacrifices that would negate any victory.


    Appreciate the civil conversation on the subject. Kind of sucks trying to dive deep in to these kinds of ideas on a computer screen.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Dec 15, 2019
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    The “right” thing is clearly stated in the first principle of KYFHO;

    Never initiate force against another. That should be the underlying principle of your life. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.
    Well, since we targeted officers and used guerrilla tactics..........:)

    IF we did get to the point of a civil war, or revolution or whatever term should be applied, and it's a fight for survival and way of life, then the rulebook gets tossed. All's fair in love and war!

    But, IMO, until we get to that point, we should maintain our honor, dignity, ethics and morals and lead by example that cheating is just wrong, regardless of how noble the reason. The reasons, even if justified because the other side cheated, is what comes back to haunt you and what people remember long days afterwards.
     

    Rhino

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    SSN? Most places won't even hire you without a SSN. The places that will because they do lots of under the table business, like paying their employees cash, instead of a payroll check, don't for the most part pay really good wages anyways, or are running some sort of illegal enterprise, or business practices.

    And a state issued ID doesn't take the place of a SSN for employment purposes. It does take the place of a state issued DL as a form of recognized and valid ID though.

    Which really, really reeks since these people are US Citizens who are excluded just because they don’t want to participate in a debatably ethical government program that was “supposed” to be not used for ID.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Dec 15, 2019
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    Which really, really reeks since these people are US Citizens who are excluded just because they don’t want to participate in a debatably ethical government program that was “supposed” to be not used for ID.

    Don't get me wrong. I think having SS "dues" removed from your paycheck should be be voluntary, not mandatory. And it shouldn't be used as part of your identity, or to verify your identity.

    Sad fact is, that train left the station decades ago.
     

    HawkeyeSATX

    Active Member
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    Jul 15, 2014
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    Now we know part of the extent of why the Left is pushing for gun control!
    It’s been because of what they are planning to do.
    Have I not been saying that they don’t follow the laws of the Constitution, and that they wouldn’t go by the Supreme Law of the Land when they decimate the Constitution?
    How naive is it to think, and assume they will be following laws from here on out?

    Hawk


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