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illegal search and seizure question

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  • hkusp1

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    i was just a t a buddies house picking up some ammo and showing him my new ar 15 and he asked me why i had bought it so i told him i wanted to get one now in case the "assault weapons" ban and i use that term loosely were to pass and go in effect and i had made a remark that ounce i bought my ar 15 they couldnt just take it away from me or any other gun for that matter for no reason and he told me that under this new ban they could just come into my home and take it for no reason other than it being on the ban list. is this true could they really do this???

    p.s. all my guns are owned legally and are registered
    '



    '
    Lynx Defense
     

    JKTex

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    Punctuation is your friend. And make reading sooooo much easier on those reading.

    Did he have his foil hat on? Did you ask him about the AWB from the first time and how many guns they went out and collected?

    No, they did not go looking for them. I'm confident, they won't come looking for them. Have you read it as it's written now? It's posted all over the place.
     

    Texas1911

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    That's just hearsay really. There hasn't been much momentum for the AWB to be reinstated, and honestly it's hard to say if it will include a grandfather clause for those guns already in ownership; the first one did hence the term "Pre-Ban".

    As far as them kicking down doors and taking your AR15. It's not going to happen any time soon, and honestly I truly doubt it would ever happen as it's far too high profile.

    As far as the illegal search and seizure aspect, if it's deemed an illegal firearm and it's in your possession then the police can establish probable cause through sales records (4473s) should they be utilized for identification purposes. At that point they can get a warrant and it won't be an illegal search, nor an illegal seizure.

    I'm sure there will be some chest beating and saber rattling in this thread about the Government coming for your guns, but honestly, you have only to look at the previous AWB to understand how things will play out should Washington impose another AWB. It's against the principle of the 2nd Amendment and completely biased upon emotional hogwash, but honestly until the gun community solves alot of issues, it's not something we are going to be able to stop.
     

    JKTex

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    There's no need for making inflammatory comments.

    I don't see it as inflammatory but a friendly nudge to not "text type" with next to no punctuation which does make it hard to read. I thought something along those lines was even in the rules; maybe not exactly but the same result. Making posts easy to read.

    Although, I did typo as it should have said, "And it makes reading so much easier......". Maybe that made it come across differently?
     

    Texas42

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    I agree with you guys, but I never though the whitehouse would be the new Board of directors of the car industry. I may have to go and make a funny hat, but I truly have no idea what the current administration thinks they can get away with. They would probably need another "crisis," like Katrina but nation wide to really try and take people's guns away.

    I agree that banning one of the most popular rifles today would cause an outrage, but so will a carbon trading tax (once people realize what that is) and forcing Americans to buy the cars that THEY want us to buy. I have very little doubt that the adminstration will try and institute the last two.

    I'm just saying while I don't think it will happen, I'm not as sure as I used to be.
     

    DCortez

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    /agree Texas42

    Who would have ever thought potus would tell the ceo of GM to quit? Who ever thought the government would take over GM's warranty work? Who would have ever thought stun guns would be treated like guns (HB1164)?
     

    DrBart2

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    "They would probably need another "crisis," like Katrina but nation wide to really try and take people's guns away."

    I believe in their minds we have another crisis now. It is called the violence in Mexico. From the comments of Hillary Clinton and our Attorney General, it is their belief (or what they want the general public to believe) that all the problems in Mexico are due to American citizens ability to easily purchase and own firearms. I don't think the American public will be duped by this, and I don't believe the anti-gun types are dumb enough to really think that they can forcibly take guns from the millions of gun owners here in the US.
    I believe they are searching for ways to get our guns and will continue to test different ideas. We just have to stay alert and make sure they don't sneak some kind of legislation in the back door that will restrict our rights.
     

    GPtwins

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    In Hillary's remarks, she said the DEA check over the guns seized in the last round up and many of them came through the U.S. What she did not say is that many them came through the U.S. military -- not so much private citizens. Why would she leave that part out? Like any politician, it does not suite her purposes to tell the entire truth.

    Oh, and the thing with Mexico. Even more reason that private citizens should have weapons. Just in case Texas needs to call up a citizen militia to defend its border.
     

    whit128

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    Ohhh! You mean taking guns that were illegal when you obtained them. I didn't know the topic had changed. :rolleyes:

    "When applying this common sense standard to the circumstances of the ATF investigation, the affidavit appears to have contained sufficient evidence of violations of Federal firearms law to support the magistrate's decision to issue the warrants.[27] There were substantial purchases of AR-15 semiautomatics and AR-15 lower receivers, grenade hulls, and black powder. A neighbor, who had served in an Army artillery unit, testified that he had frequently heard the sound of automatic weapons fire. A deputy sheriff testified that he had heard a loud explosion at the Davidian residence which produced a cloud of grey smoke. Taken together, this information provided a sufficient basis for finding probable cause to issue the warrants.
    While the warrants may have met the minimal standard of constitutional sufficiency, the affidavit supporting the warrants contained numerous misstatements of the facts, misstatements of the law, and misapplication of the law to the facts, and serves as a de facto record of a poorly developed and mismanaged investigation. The affidavit included misleading and factually inaccurate statements, contained substantial irrelevant and confusing information, and failed to properly qualify witnesses' testimony when obviously called for based on their backgrounds. Consequently, the affidavit gave the appearance that the ATF was not going to let questionable facts or evidence stand in the way of moving forward on their timetable.
    The affidavit provided and sworn to by Aguilera contained numerous errors and misrepresentations, which, taken together, create a seriously flawed affidavit. The affidavit misstated that Koresh possessed a British Boys anti-tank .52 caliber rifle, when in fact Koresh owned a Barret light .50 firearm.[28] Possession of the British Boys would have been a felony [29] while possession of the Barret was completely legal. The affidavit misstated that the M16 parts kits from Nesard company were two CAR and two EZ kits which contained all the parts of an M16 machine gun except for the lower receiver unit, when, in fact, the Nesard parts kits do not contain the auto sear and pin which are absolutely necessary to convert semi automatic weapons to machine guns.[30] The affidavit failed to mention that grenade hulls like those cited in the affidavit to help establish probable cause had been sold by the Davidians in the past at gun shows as paper weights and mounted on plaques. Finally, the affidavit was misleading by reporting that Deputy Sheriff Terry Fuller was in the vicinity of the compound when he heard a loud explosion, but then failed to report that Fuller investigated and learned that the Davidians were using dynamite for construction".


    I am saying that if the government decides to take action it will do so. I hate the thought of an agent or officer misrepresenting information for a warrant but it does happen. The information gathered by the Texas Rangers showed that the weapons were converted at the compound, illegal yes, stupid yes.
    Now lets say we know that hkusp1 has some really cool guns that the government decides he does not need so we contact one of his shooting buddies that has some tax issues. The shooting buddy tells us that he has seen hkusp1 adding a new spring to the weapon possibly making it full auto, yep here we come. Hey what if hkusp1 has weapons of mass destruction in his coat closet, we smashed a whole country on that joke. Don't kid yourself if the 2nd amendment is ever defeated we are in trouble. When California passed legislation requiring the registration of all semi auto rifles on a "list" you either did it or became a felon and a quick statement from a pissed off brother in law and a search warrant ensued.
     

    popo22

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    We all realize that misrepresentation or embellishment of facts (writing affidavits, etc.) do happen whenever individuals or groups have an agenda, be it Law Enforcement, government, or individuals with something to gain. This is simply human nature, especially for those who have no morals or weak character.

    Some of these things happened during the aformentioned investigations, but that dosen't mean that there was not "just cause" to be concerned with the actions of these groups being investigated, perhaps poor (maybe illegal) application of the laws were used. We are tasked with the duty to hold these individuals and groups accountable for their actions while maintaining our "rights" and keeping our families and community safe.

    It seems like a slow and sometimes useless process when trying to hold our government officials responsible, but unfortunately that is what is legally available to us in our current society. We have to work smarter and be more diligent in holding all accountable for their actions. Its not an "easy road" but its the one we're on. Good luck
     

    Texas1911

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    We all realize that misrepresentation or embellishment of facts (writing affidavits, etc.) do happen whenever individuals or groups have an agenda, be it Law Enforcement, government, or individuals with something to gain. This is simply human nature, especially for those who have no morals or weak character.

    Some of these things happened during the aformentioned investigations, but that dosen't mean that there was not "just cause" to be concerned with the actions of these groups being investigated, perhaps poor (maybe illegal) application of the laws were used. We are tasked with the duty to hold these individuals and groups accountable for their actions while maintaining our "rights" and keeping our families and community safe.

    It seems like a slow and sometimes useless process when trying to hold our government officials responsible, but unfortunately that is what is legally available to us in our current society. We have to work smarter and be more diligent in holding all accountable for their actions. Its not an "easy road" but its the one we're on. Good luck

    Completely agree.
     

    M. Sage

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    p.s. all my guns are owned legally and are registered

    The only guns that get registered in Texas are NFA firearms, and those are only registered with the Feds.

    And you're not talking about illegal search and seizure, you're talking about illegal takings.

    From Amendment V:

    "No person shall be... (snip) ... deprived of...property, without due process of law..."

    If it's legal when you buy it, a ban would be ex-post facto, and with firearms they'll "allow you" to (make you) register the firearm or "surrender" it to be destroyed. That's the only reason California gun owners got to keep existing "evil" rifles and other guns. Because the state knew it would be too blatantly un-Constitutional to enact mass confiscations.

    However, if another federal ban comes down the pipe, expect it to not only require registration, but to disallow transfer even among family or because of death. At least, that's my opinion. In other words, the idea is to model the ban after CA's ban.

    That said, CA's ban is so full of holes, it looks like swiss cheese if you give it a close look. Just two years ago, I was in CA near San Francisco assembling a Romy G kit onto an NDS-3 receiver in a friend's garage to make my very own CA-legal AK.
     

    Texas42

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    " Possession of the British Boys would have been a felony [29] ".

    This may seem off topic, but what about a "British Boys" rifle would make it illegal?

    I'm not contradicting you, I just don't know. I have never heard of it. It just looks like a large, high powerd rifle to me.
     
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